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Old 01-10-2020, 06:57 PM   #21
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1917-1911M .38
I'll be glad to fire some mini mags and post pictures of the strikes if it would help. Perhaps someone with a TPH in .22 could post what their strikes look like.

I'm not familiar with the workings of a TPH, so I'm just brain storming....could the firing pin return spring not be the correct one and is going solid??? sometimes? Binding? What stops forward movement of the firing pin? How does a round sit in a TPH? On my .22s the rim sits against the rear of the chamber...I would assume a TPH does the same and isn't recessed.

Many times after firing a number of rounds and on any .22 pistol I have had the chamber get dirty and stop a round from solidly seating. I can extract a round, stick one in by hand and feel the grit and extra pressure it takes to fully seat it. Simple and I'm sure ruled out...but brain storming.



This is a crazy analysis I know but above is a picture of the firing pin in an LCP. I'm using it because it is hosted. On the similar Bodyguard firing pin, the part had not been milled far enough rearward where the red arrow is pointing. The pin that holds the part in the slide and prevents over penetration is similar as I recall. What the owner was experiencing was random firing on the first firing pin strike. The firing pin would fire one round and not the next. But this is where the problem was. Is something like this possible on a TPH?

This really is all pretty simple in how it should work. The mainspring has to be up to specs. Hammer mass stock. The firing pin fully reset. Nothing peened on the firing pin to impede forward movement. No out of spec stop. Stock firing pin reset spring. No damaged firing pin nose. Round fully seated? What else?

Recently we were looking at an ejector that would not hold the slide open. It was a similar to but not a correct PP part. With a used pistol there is no telling what might have been done by a previous owner. What should the OAL of a proper firing pin be? Anyone. Grayfox has replaced his but it still might be the wrong length or the firing pin return spring might be wrong. It is difficult to diagnose and correct these things over the net. Gun in hand and some of us could figure it out. I'd put up pictures of stock parts and dimensions but I don't have one of these. Almost bought a beautiful one years ago but the guy wanted $900 for it. A bit too much and with only one mag and nothing else. 1917

Last edited by 1917-1911M; 01-10-2020 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 01-10-2020, 07:15 PM   #22
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Grayfox .22
Firing pin travel and the spring are good. On the TPH you have to push the firing pin all the way in and past the safety in order is disassemble the slide. No problem there.
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:17 PM   #23
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Ahhhh...visited the FAQ section and read up on TPH problems. Posts beginning at #25 ( if I recall correctly) by MG Mike explain a lot of things. 1917
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Old 01-11-2020, 07:09 AM   #24
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Grayfox .22
Well that FAQ thread was certainly enlightening. Although not very encouraging.

Quote:
once commented that Ulm itself regarded the gun as a toy, not a serious firearm.
Quote:
Many of them don't work, and... might not ever.
Dammit! I like the gun! But maybe a should just cut my loses and dump it. Decisions...decisions.
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Old 01-11-2020, 09:21 AM   #25
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I like Walthers that don't work. I find it fun to study on them and try to figure out how they should work and why they don't. Along with plenty of pictures of course. 1917
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Old 01-11-2020, 09:33 AM   #26
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MGMike .38
Single-action misfires in a TPH are rare. Double-action misfires are frustratingly common. The ignition is obviously marginal. The factory tried several different mainsprings in TPHs to cure these misfires. Also at least two different firing pins, with different firing pin springs, and various combinations thereof. Unless you already have a handful of these parts to switch and try, a lot of time, money and effort will be saved by simply sending the gun to Mike McClellan.

However, some things you can try first:

1) Remove the slide and drop a cartridge into the chamber to see if it passes the "plonk" test. Make sure the cartridge rim is fully and evenly seated against the rear face of the barrel (note that chamber usually is slightly countersunk, so look from the sides very carefully; use magnification if you're over 50).

2) Remove the firing pin spring and reassemble the slide. Move the pin back and forth by hand and check for drag anywhere.

3) Remove the recoil spring and run the slide back and forth on the frame by hand and check for any resistance just before the slide closes, and to be sure that the slide fully closes, and is not being held open very slightly by a sticking extractor.

4) Remove the hammer spring and reassemble the hammer to the frame. Study the rub marks; these are clues. Articulate the hammer by hand to check for binding, sticking or interference. Then mount the slide and do it again to see if it makes any difference. Check the edges of the rear of the slide where the hammer drops to look for any sign that the hammer's not exactly perpendicular and has been nicking it on either side; same with the hammer edges.

5) Examine the hammer full-cock notch to see if anyone's cut it back, or stoned down the sear, either of which would reduce the arc of hammer travel. Normally these will not show signs of hand work.

6) Closely examine the front and rear contact points of the firing pin. At the rear the ball should fit neatly in the socket of the safety without interference when the safety is in the fire position. The rear stub of the firing pin should protrude from the safety drum enough to give the hammer something to hit. At the front, make sure the "stop surface" of the firing pin has not been altered or raised a burr on the rear face of the barrel that interferes with the chisel part of the pin cleanly impacting the cartridge rim.

7) Try threading a small washer onto the hammer strut (the mainspring guide) above the hammer spring to give it a little extra pre-load. Make sure the hammer strut swings freely on the hammer and is not bent. Again, look for uneven rub marks.

Understand that if you succeed in fixing the ignition by increasing spring force, the DA pull will go even deeper into hell than it already is. Solution: forget about DA.

M
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Last edited by MGMike; 01-11-2020 at 10:57 AM. Reason: Expanded #7
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Old 01-11-2020, 08:06 PM   #27
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Items 1,2,3,5 & 6 already done. I'll check the others when I have time. May be a few days as I have several irons in the fire already.
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:34 AM   #28
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halfmoonclip .22
Grayfox, you can continue your preparations for admittance to a rubber room, tho' following Mike's list is at least worth a try.
Then, either bite the bullet and ship it off to M&M (an FFL should be able to save you on shipping), or accept it for what it is...a really neat, but flawed little gun that is simply a pleasure to own.
If you want a tiny, 'all the time' pistol there are more modern alternatives, albeit not nearly so intriguing.
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:02 PM   #29
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Grayfox .22
Ok, I give up.
Yesterday I took the gun completely apart and checked everything. I tried everything on MGMike's list including adding a washer to the hammer spring. This morning I test fired it. No joy.
I've been messing around with guns my whole life and this is the first problem I've ever run into that I couldn't fix myself. I just can't find anything wrong with it. Frankly, its pissing me off no end!
I did hear back from M&M. They think they can fix it for somewhere between $100 & 170. and I guess there will be shipping on top of that. But it looks like I have no choice. DAMMIT!
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:05 PM   #30
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Not to take business away from MM, as he's the best, but I have a few additional thoughts:

1) When a misfire occurs, what does the indent in the rim look like? Often that's a clue to what's wrong (though sometimes not). 1917-1911M posted some photos of what it ought to look like. What about yours?

2) Just as an experiment, try removing the firing pin spring. The gun might fire only once and stop, but be sure to catch the empty for examination and comparison. If nothing else you'll rule out the possibility that the spring is too strong or going solid and preventing full travel.

3) If you have a vernier calipers with depth measurement capability on the tail end, measure the depth of the breech face recess in the slide. That, plus the slight countersink on rear barrel face, determines your headspace. If it's excessive and the extractor is all that's holding the rim to the rear, when the hammer falls it could be cushioning the blow from the firing pin.

M

Last edited by MGMike; 01-14-2020 at 08:13 PM.
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