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Old 10-20-2019, 08:30 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Austin Powers View Post
... That being said, most of the folks who poo poo .380 ACP are the sort who argue that 9mm Luger is the ultimate self-defense/duty cartridge...
Nonsense. Everyone knows the .45ACP is God's own caliber.



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Old 10-20-2019, 09:05 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Mr007Bonds View Post
.380 ACP is even capable of meeting FBI/IWBA specifications for duty cartridges by penetrating a minimum of 12" in Ballistics Gelatin through 4 layers of heavy denim with full expansion
Yes.

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Originally Posted by Mr007Bonds View Post
, albeit marginally (12"-13" is about as much as you can expect) and pretty much exclusively with the modestly expanding Hornady XTP bullet design.
No. If you (like one author) elect a Taurus TCP, and somehow still manage to get slower velocities and worse results across all rounds than even people using shorter barreled LCPs and LCPIIs, then sure, you're stuck with an XTP.

Go with a Glock42, Makarov, Bersa (or something closely resembling a Bersa?) and the options open right up. Really glad I didn't go with my first instinct and buy a Beretta Pico.

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Still, a duty cartridge it is not, so if you want to carry a duty cartridge, you want 9mm Luger or higher.
Yes. Even the people/rounds/arms that look FBI-spec in gel or gel+denim don't even try the barrier tests. (or, conversely, if I'm defending out in the world and the threat goes and hides behind a car, I'll just leave...)
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Old 10-20-2019, 09:16 PM   #23
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I shoot mostly factory hardball in all my P-Series pistols. They work wonderfully, and while they probably don't expand, they probably don't need to, and I'll probably never fire one in SD. For the fun of shooting, it's hardball.


Hornady Critical Defense is my only concession to expanding bullets. I got a couple of boxes from a guy who owed me money and that was the exchange. They seem to shoot reliably in the few times I've used them for a function test, but are too expensive for practice.
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Old 10-20-2019, 09:31 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by DE Pistole View Post
Not "hard to shoot because of recoil" or "slide bite," but because learning to shoot these fine pistols takes patience and acknowledgement of their design imposed gripping and ammunition requirements/limitations.

Everyone is likely a "recoil wimp" at some point in their lives; I see it fast approaching. For some, this happens sooner than later for whatever physical limitations imposed by nature or life. For this reason, I usually wince at usage of "recoil wimp."

Well, I'm 74 years old and have dreaded recoil since I was a young man. I have always been a recoil wimp....strike that, I have always been recoil sensitive. I don't have any arthritis issues (knock on wood) but do have weaker hands than a few years back. It's difficult, but not impossible for me to rack a .380 slide, easy with the .32.


The Interarms .380 PPK/S was my first introduction to a dot-front sight. I found it pretty easy to shoot in low-light and street situations. I carried it for a while as a primary weapon because I was a LEO UC and didn't want to get burned because I was carrying a cop-looking gun. The Interarms PPK .380 has excellent sights as well, and I painted the .32's sights with orange fingernail polish. So now I can see all of them.



I don't think it took any special training to get proficient with the PP over any other auto...just line up the sights and pull the trigger. Just like any other auto pistol I've owned.
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Old 10-20-2019, 10:11 PM   #25
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My only beef with .380 is it’s more expensive than 9mm. As far has hard on the hands, I have both a PPK in .380 and a Ruger LCP (my carry gun). The PPK is a dream to shoot versus the (and after shooting) LCP. But my favorite to shoot at the range is the much maligned PPK/S in .22. You can shoot it all day for not much money and my hands never complain. Any of these three can be a self defense weapon considering less that 1% of people who carry will ever encounter a need to use it for such. My opinion not backed up by fact.
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Old 10-20-2019, 10:37 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by GeoNole94 View Post
Shoot a .32 and a .380 PP-series pistol side by side and the reason is obvious. The exception is the .380 PP Super, which is much more pleasant to shoot.
My PP Super is in 9mm Ultra and I was surprised at how comfortable it is compared to my .380's.


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Everyone is likely a "recoil wimp" at some point in their lives
I think everyone handles recoil differently. I enjoy shooting 10mm and .357 / .44 Magnum but I find .357 Sig and most .380's to be unpleasant.
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Old 10-20-2019, 10:57 PM   #27
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Recoil / slide bite - didn't mention those.
Special training - didn't say that.

I did say "patience and acknowledgement of their design"; a nod to not wimp wristing and not using HP in a pistol designed for FMJ (aka pre-S&W.) A seasoned pistol shooter does, of course, know this and has an advantage when first using the PP series.

Last edited by DE Pistole; 10-20-2019 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 10-21-2019, 08:06 AM   #28
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Nonsense. Everyone knows the .45ACP is God's own caliber.
🙂

Having had the need to use a M1911 for irs intended purpose in Nam, all I can say is that God should savor her selection. I would have rather had a 9mm while clearing buildings in 68 in Hue City. For me accuracy is the most important factor of lethality. There is a good reason the military went to 9mm. Most are more accurate with that caliber. But the 45 is wrecking ball of a different class.
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:05 AM   #29
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DE Pistole I agree with you, having to learn how not to get bitten by the slide of the PP/PPK’s is something a lot of shooters don't learn. All it took for me was the mark’s on the web of my right hand. Then the light came on, just grip it so the slide clears the web, and the rest is history.
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Old 10-21-2019, 12:16 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
I've got a couple of .380s in the PP frame, yet I see a lot (well, maybe not a LOT, but some informed posters) dismissing the .380. Why is this? Mine shoot any type of ammo I've tried flawlessly...they're Interarms, back from a while ago. The last one I bought is SS a very accurate pistol...more so than my .32 Ulm.


And the recoil? Not bad. So why no love for this pretty good pocket cartridge?
I love it. It is my go to carry caliber because I am focused on self defense rather than fighting off Al Qaeda. I have the LCP, the Sig P238 (which is awesome) and the PPK, which is easy to carry but not good in a pocket for me.


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