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Old 03-05-2019, 05:14 PM   #11
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MoonWolf .22
Missouri bullets and Bayou bullets sell 9mm swc projectiles. I think S&W or Federal marketed some swc ammo thirty years back.
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Old 03-10-2019, 09:30 AM   #12
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jdjoe .22
Scaled down .380 ACP

All
This is the very subject I started to look into a while ago. I have been Bullseye shooting ( 200 grain SWC .45 ACP) in a 1911 for awhile and was looking at the scaled down .380 ACP from Browning for my wife, to shoot in Bullseye competition. This parallels Pantera Mike’s thinking.The only lead bullet I was able to find was a 90 grain round nose. I had no feeding problems in a Sig P238. Which is a scaled down 1911, sort of. The Browning’s have barrel bushings which is a plus and the scaling in size is closer to Pantra Mikes thinking. The .380 ACP comes in 95 grain FMJ and a 115 grain HP which would also be worth a try. Bullseye shooters are starting to look at jacketed bullets a little closer. We are trying a PPQ Q5 for my wife currently which is amazing.
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Old 03-10-2019, 09:41 AM   #13
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jdjoe .22
Just looked at the 2 bullet sites they look good!
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Old 10-17-2019, 11:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantera Mike View Post
The cartridge. When browning was tasked with developing a ‘38’ caliber cartridge, he simply scaled down the existing 45 ACP that he had also previously designed. It is proportionally scaled down in all dimensions.

I just read that little nugget somewhere a few weeks ago, but can’t find the reference now....

Edit: found it. From an article in Shooting Times:

The .380 ACP was designed by John Browning for a Colt pistol sometime around 1908. The confusing thing—at least to me—is why Browning didn't just shorten a 9 mm case? No doubt he had one on his workbench. This is possibly because when shortened, 9 mm case walls would be too thick to accept the .355-inch bullet without bulging. Still, Browning could have gone with the 9 mm exterior case dimensions and just thinned the case walls. He didn't.


There is a more plausible explanation I stumbled upon while playing with a calculator. While my hypothesis is mere conjecture, I've yet to find anyone who can offer convincing evidence to the contrary. A .355-inch diameter bullet is about 78 percent the size of the .451-inch diameter bullet used in the .45 ACP cartridge, which Browning had already developed. If you take all the dimensions on a .45 ACP case and reduce them proportionally, guess what? You end up with a .380 ACP. In essence, a .380 ACP is 78 percent of a .45 ACP.

This makes perfect sense and is similar to what Browning did when developing the M2 machine gun in .50 caliber. The .50 BMG cartridge is very proportional to the .30-'06 Sprg.; a cartridge Browning did not design, but he did subsequently design a machine gun chambered for it.
Mike there is a difference between the .380 case and the 45 ACP case, and that is the 380 has a internal taper, which reduces powder space and restricted the length of bullet that can be used. That is why he used a 95 Gr FMJ.
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Old 10-17-2019, 01:18 PM   #15
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Pantera Mike .22
Okay, interesting, thanks.

I eventually decided ‘if you can’t beat them, join them’ and gave up on finding cast bullets for the 380. I discovered that with Speer’s 20% rebate, their TMJ bullets are cost-competitive with typical cast lead bullets, and offer several advantages, so I wound up ordering a thousand of those instead.

It proved to be a good decision. I don’t claim to be an expert pistol shot by any means, but the attached photo shows the results of my first six-round magazine fired at a target 25 yards away, which I gather is a greater distance than most PPK shooters tend to use. The gun is an apparently NIB 1966 Ulm PPK that I bought a few months ago. The load is 3.0gr of HP-38, which feels slightly lighter than the factory Speer Lawman ammo using the same bullet. Five rounds in one hole and a single flyer is surprising performance, especially from an average shooter.

This particular group is evidence of the blind squirrel/nut aphorism—at 15 yards most of my groups were in the 3-5 inch range. But it shows what is possible when the shooter does his job properly...
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File Type: jpg F2863CBC-F490-4947-A4C7-19F4436AD869.jpg (141.4 KB, 8 views)

Last edited by Pantera Mike; 10-17-2019 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 10-17-2019, 06:09 PM   #16
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Mike Martin .22
Oh No!

I had ordered quite a bit of bulk ammunition a few weeks ago, and when I got it I realized that the .380 I ordered came with a flat nose bullet. I Just saw FMJ when I ordered, (And not the FN) and was really worried I had 1,000 rds of ammo I couldn't use because my only other .380 (Besides my Walther PPK) is a Sig 230, which is notoriously finicky. Took a couple of boxes to the range today and the Walther and the Sig functioned flawlessly. I only used one box (about 25 shots apiece) WHEW! Winchester white box FMJFN, works in Walther's and Sigs!
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:50 PM   #17
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No.6 .22
^ Mine also (2019 Ft. Smith PPK/S) and has faultlessly digested FMJ and JHP without issue.

I recently learned a local (Novi) place called Fenix manufactures rounds built to hit IDPA power factor including a 100gr .380 round. I have written to ask how they got 950fps out of that... out of my bullet data collection from almost a dozen sources only Federal HST and Remington Golden Sabre hit 95PF or more and that wasn’t always.
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Old 10-18-2019, 12:24 AM   #18
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No.6, what power factor are you trying to achieve? Trying anything outside the norm with a PPK can create too much slide velocity.

Finding a handload that would run 100 straight in a Ranger Walther was a battle I fought 30years ago...and lost.
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:03 AM   #19
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Pantera Mike when one finds the 380 load that his or hers likes, groups like yours makes for an enjoyable day at the range. Just yesterday myself found a load with the Hornady 90 Gr XTP and 700-X powder that my PPK/S really likes, it was a great day.
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