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Old 04-25-2013, 06:24 PM   #1
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R_che .22
A dog-chewed guide rod: What to do?

My new PK380's return spring guide rod (after 200+ rounds) looks like the dog chewed on it ! Is the metal on the slide rod defective or is this due to the aggressive beaded spring design?
I enjoy the weapon...but the slide action is perhaps the sloppiest feeling slide I have ever used...my 380 PPK/S is tight as a tick...(I know the PPK/S is a blowback design) however I am wondering if the looser slide/frame fit on the PK 380 is the reason the return spring rod is hacked up?
Any thoughts?
R_che

Last edited by searcher451; 04-25-2013 at 07:51 PM. Reason: Moved from FAQ thread
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:53 PM   #2
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https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/f...at-photos.html

Take some photos to share with the folks at Walther Arms. But please post them here as well so that we can all get a look at what's going on.
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Old 04-26-2013, 06:18 PM   #3
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table42 .22
Yes, Pictures please.

There's not much to show with mine. The black is about 75% gone, scuffed off. What's left is pretty thin. I looks about the way I would expect it to. It does NOT look like a dog has been chewing on it. No divots or dents but very smooth.

Concerning the loose slide, how is your accuracy at reasonable distances?
Before I bought mine, the loose slide made me wonder if it could be accurate but it turns out to do very well for what it was intended to be.
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Old 04-26-2013, 06:46 PM   #4
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It could just be from the spring; tight springs compressing over metal will eventually eat away at the finish. Personally, I haven't seen a problem with this, but if you're really worried about it, lightly lube the guide rod spring area and it will reduce the friction in theory without detriment to the gun's function.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:52 AM   #5
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R_che .22
All
Here are the replies and private posts for the group.
Thanks to Searcher 451 for the added info.
R_che

Yes, the photo shows up here. Good job! Be sure to post this in the forum. I'm not a PK380 expert, but a few folks there are (Edd, for example). Your email querey should go to WaltherArms in Arkansas, not to S&W. They are out of the Walther business.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by R_che
Thanks...I will try that number next week. I did try the email connection on the web site printed in the PK380 manual, but my email was rejected by the local tech address posted on the Walther web site...? Smith/Wesson vs Walther issues?

None the less I will try to post a photo of the rod and spring for you...not sure if I have the posting photo's thing correct? Here is what I have using Photobucket:
http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2501ead5.jpg

Please let me know if this photo link connected for you...?

The striations and scarring on my guide rod are not back and forth along the rod...but rather circular around the rod...as if the rod is catching on the slide rod opening during the firing/ejection cycle? Yet I have not had any FTF/E issues at all.

I also will take it to my local gunsmith, and let him look at it as well. Unfortunately I am disappointed to find the accuracy of my PK380 to be far less that my PPK/S 380...perhaps it is just the difference of the fixed barrel on the PPK/S versus the floating barrel on the PK380? Thoughts...
Thanks again,
R_che
https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/<...ps2501ead5.jpg[/IMG]
Quote:
Originally Posted by searcher451
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(479) 242-8500 ext 273

Last edited by R_che; 04-27-2013 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:02 PM   #6
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eddbrowne .22
See message 8 and 10 at
https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/p...ear-pk380.html

It appears that the barrel tube is a machined part, which is pressed/brazed
into the chamber block (which is an injected and fused 'mim' part).
The guide rod is also machined.

I don't think the spring is the cause for the guide rod marks.
They are consistent from end to end of the damaged zone, so that
points to "chatter" gouging as it passes through the slide guide port.

The barrel and guide rod scoring has been an issue for a long time now.
It seems that this should be avoided by finish machining with a larger radius
on the turning tools, since this reduces roughness for the same feed rates.

After about 230 rounds I polished the barrel and the guide rod,
and after 600 rounds they both remain smooth, without any
additional polishing.

Regarding accuracy issues ....
There is substantial slop between the barrel features and the adjacent slide features.
Part of this goes with the Browning locking-barrel design. It seems to be a
little too much slop, but I am not aware of all the factors in the tolerances.

What bugs me more is the wide aperture in the rear sight, which makes
aiming a bit difficult in the horizontal plane (and a bit in the vertical plane).
This might be due to some study of peripheral vision in the sight picture
for defensive short range situations.

I have tried very crude rest shooting, and the groups seem good for defense.
I also tried to find evidence of bullet tumble in cardboard targets, but found no tumble.
...........
edit on May 7:
I examined the barrel movement at battery while holding the slide firmly.
The movement at the muzzle was under .020" horizontal, and under .015" vertical.
At the chamber, the horizontal movement was under .015", and the vertical under .020".

Since the lockup position is likely in a "preferred" position due to non-symmetric forces,
the actual variation in barrel position at detonation would seem to be very small.
I will try to come up with a solid bench mount to determine grouping
and deviation from point of aim.
.
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Last edited by eddbrowne; 05-07-2013 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:10 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R_che View Post
My new PK380's return spring guide rod (after 200+ rounds) looks like the dog chewed on it ! ...R_che
Shoot the dog.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:25 AM   #8
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R_che .22
Edd
I think your diagnosis is the most correct...clearly the circular patterned "chatter" on the guide rod indicates it has likely come from contacting the slide port. Further the top of the barrel also started to show some chatter markings as well.
There most be a tolerance QC problem with the slide porting or the barrel porting...or both on this weapon.
Walther Tech now has the weapon, and I'll report what repair(s) were performed when it is returned.

FYI Accuracy - I also bench fired the weapon before sending it back...and the results were very similar to the in accurate patterns from the picture I posted before. Your comments on the width of the rear sight appiture are also confirmed...which could be the cause of the left/right firing patterns...but the severe dropping low performance has to be more related to the barrel tolerances and the battery seating specifications that you mentioned.
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:30 AM   #9
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eddbrowne .22
I see now that I badly misread a comment by R_che concerning guide rod gouging :
"the slide action is perhaps the sloppiest feeling slide I have ever used ...
I am wondering if the looser slide/frame … "


He's clearly referring to the slop/play from slide to frame, not barrel to slide.
When the hammer falls, the slide can be in different positions due to the slide-frame play.
The sight picture is taken along the slide, whether the slide is to one side of
the play, or somehow angled within that play.

This factor in accuracy depends on movement of the slide as, and after, the trigger is pulled.
The complex dynamics during strike and initial shock might not be consistently biased.
The bullet is gone during 99 percent of the recoil cycle, but the 1 percent is the issue.

R_che indicates that the groups he fires are not on par with his blowback PPK/S.
The effects of PK slide-frame play could be one cause of this.

This slop/play bugs people, and it might have some practical effect.
I'd say that several production cost issues factor into the slide fit,
but it should be reviewed, even if only for the user impressions.
.
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Proofread b4 post . .PK380 (if in good order, it won't jam from a weak hold).
Chinese chips open US systems without detection. busn-insider-chinastole
US can't keep secrets.(China has complete designs of US nukes). . worldometers.info

Last edited by eddbrowne; 05-09-2013 at 05:46 AM.
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