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Old 08-06-2019, 12:58 PM   #1
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suggestions for new ccw for my wife

For about 15 years my wife has relied upon her P22/PK380’s, with complete satisfaction. But with the all the new CCW options, she is looking for an update (Walther or otherwise) that is smaller and lighter. Her requirements are:
• Available in both .22 and .380 with exact same physical layout. This allows her to practice a lot with the cheap .22 ammo, and build muscle memory that carries directly over to the .380. She does not like 9 mm, and so the everyday carry needs to be .380.
• She likes the single- / double-action function of the P22/PK380, and if possible would want to retain that setup. At this point in time, I do not think she would be satisfied with a double-action only (due to longer and heavier trigger pull), but if there are any really good options with that action, she would consider.
• Ambidextrous manual safety and mag release. She is left handed and I am right. Either of us need to be able to operate the pistol in the most convenient fashion.
• Laser site option on the .380. Not necessary on the .22.
• The upgrade needs to be both smaller and lighter than her current P22/PK380’s, as that is the primary reason for the inquiry.

Thank you
Gene Ballay
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:41 PM   #2
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What you're asking for is a pretty tall order. .380s smaller than the PK380 get more and more unpleasant to shoot the smaller they get, FYI, and it's not just the size; most of the other ones out there are blowback rather than locked breech. If she "doesn't like 9mm," then smaller .380s may well be worse, and DA/SA guns are few and far between these days, especially with a manual safety.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:03 AM   #3
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I have no recommendations about specific gun choices because I have not tracked such info. I do not track it because I would never use a 22 for practice and a 380 for carry. After the first trigger pull al subsequent shots from a 380 are simply far harder than a follow shot from a 22. Good self defense practices dictate that one ought to practice with the specific SD gun.

I understand the attraction of cost saving 22 for practice, but if that practice does not duplicate the reality of a shooting the SD weapon were the savings worth it?

I carry 9mm, currently and likely for a long time into the future a PPS M2. To increase my proficiency with the gun in case of a SD need I shoot Winchester Train & Defend ammo. The FMJ training rounds are the same design as the JHP defensive rounds with the weight and basic ballistics. The recoil between the two different rounds in undistinguishable. Shooting the Train ammo is exactly like shooting the Defend ammo. However the train ammo is much less expensive.

Another way to save money practicing any technique except recoils management is to use a laser target shooting system. When the trigger is pulled the laser strikes the target and that data can be recorded on a smartphone app. It is a good training method for practicing draw, presentation, and fire methods. No recoil means it is not sufficient practice on its own so range time is needed.

So money can be saved by not buying a 22 pistol and ammo. Combining a laser practice setup with train and defend ammo would likely save money and more importantly increase competency with the EDC gun.
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:07 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
I understand the attraction of cost saving 22 for practice, but if that practice does not duplicate the reality of a shooting the SD weapon were the savings worth it?
So I take it you think dry fire practice is worthless, then? .22 is basically dry fire that gives feedback on actual targets...
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:00 AM   #5
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While it's not cheaper, I tend to train with my .32 ACP PPK and then, when (rarely) I carry a PPK, it's my .380 ACP.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:15 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by olstyn View Post
So I take it you think dry fire practice is worthless, then? .22 is basically dry fire that gives feedback on actual targets...
You “take it” incorrectly, and I never mentioned let alone made a judgement on the value of “dry fire” in my post. You equated live fire with dry fire. Shooting live ammo out of a 22 is not dry fire or an equivalent thereof. You do not get target feedback from dry fire. You do get it from live fire even with a smaller caliber than one’s EDC. But you also get that from laser targeting practice that I suggested.

My point in case you missed it was that training with a 22 caliber rather than 380 which would be used in an actual self defense situation is not good practice because the variation in handling and recoil begin to affect human performance after the first shot.

If it were a good idea the military would have troops practice with 22 rifles and save millions of dollars annually.

In closing I want to end my participation in this thread with experienced base opinion. Target range shooting is very worthwhile preparing for a possible SD encounter because practice improves performance. However, it in not way prepares you for an actual gunfight from the perspective of keeping your cool, forgetting about possibly dying, and handling your gun when you are being shot at by a bad guy. That is an experience that one has to live through to appreciate what I mean. From experience I can say with assurance that defending yourself with a pistol in an actual trade of fire the more your pistol is an extension of your arm and hand the better you will do. To make that extension happen practicing with the EDC gun is imperative. That is what I know.
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