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Old 08-23-2019, 10:14 AM   #21
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ssivbreger .22
Quote:
Originally Posted by chandler5566 View Post
What do you believe the factory guide rod does during the recoil operation? Could you explain what is meant by "hitting the return spring" and "rollback".....those are terms I have not encountered before? What is the reduction in service life?
E-translator games.
The correct term is recoil.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...service%20life
https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/se...embly.1053377/

There are tons of discussions online about such issues.
https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/tu...3-g19.1501588/
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1058488
https://glock.pro/glock-tech-warrant...roblems-3.html
Glock recoil spring and guide rod
https://www.glockforum.com/threads/t...problem.11289/

Just do not be too lazy to read. ;-)

Some are fine.
Others have understandable problems.
The third is completely incomprehensible...

An automatic weapon, the item is slightly less simple than a shoehorn.
And if someone believes that with the help of collective farm tuning he can improve something noticeably without ruining anything ...
... good luck.
Serious factories (and Walter is quite serious) attract quite serious engineers for their products. And these products have been produced for decades and millions.

And each nail in them is just that and in that very place as it is for a reason.

This is Your gun.
This is Your money.
This is Your life.
Thinking is for You.
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Old 08-23-2019, 10:22 AM   #22
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ssivbreger .22
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Originally Posted by chandler5566 View Post
Your responses might have someone believing that you are trolling? Still looking for your response to my questions.
So far, I only see a very classic troll question. LOL

Do you have some special education in gun making?
(Internet forums do not count ;-) )
If you have, then the answers to you should be so obvious.
Otherwise, you do not need it.
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:18 PM   #23
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chandler5566 .22
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Originally Posted by ssivbreger View Post
Just do not be too lazy to read.

Read through virtually all of those and not surprisingly the posts were a complete mix of positive and only mildly negative. End result....nothing except disagreement.

You still have not addressed my questions. First, I am surprised to learn that the guide rod is not intended to remain in place and even more surprised to learn that the guide rod will hit something you describe as the "return spring" at the "roll back". Those are the parts and motions I wanted some explanation about.

In answer to your question I have no education in firearms gun making. However, I have just enough hands on experience to understand the basics and the operational aspects of a number of them and in that time I have not seen or heard the terms you used.

If you take the time to read almost any one of the Walther model forums you will probably discover that a number of design and production failures have produced mush less of the precision firearms you imply the engineers have provided...Those failures have occurred since the creation of the first model right up to today's models and there are a number of members on this forum who have literally assisted those cracker-jack engineers in correcting the errors!
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Old 08-23-2019, 07:17 PM   #24
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olstyn .22
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Originally Posted by ssivbreger View Post
And each nail in them is just that and in that very place as it is for a reason.
Sometimes that reason is cost, not performance. Is a plastic guide rod reliable, and does it produce acceptable performance? Yes. Given that, and the fact that the factory has to produce these guns to a price point, plastic is what they choose.

Note, however, that the tungsten rod which you have implied will damage the gun comes from the same factory, and is intended for use in the same gun by those same engineers. (Anyone who claims that a 4" PPQ and a P99 are not effectively the same gun in anything other than the presence/absence of a DA trigger stroke, a decocker, and some cosmetics is not paying attention - as IAOF said, the part numbers for the factory plastic-rod RSAs are the same between them.)

Ultimately, we can't know the long-term effect without testing it, but in my view, it's a very low-risk test. The only reason that I haven't bought the "PPQ" tungsten rod for my P99 is that I'm a cheapskate.
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Old 08-24-2019, 11:56 AM   #25
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Barbarian .22
Serious factories (and Walter is quite serious) attract quite serious engineers for their products. And these products have been produced for decades and millions.

And each nail in them is just that and in that very place as it is for a reason.

Sorry chief, when i had a Glock 22 plastic recoil spring break into two pieces in my hand, I realized I had a lump of metal in my hand that did not work as intended. Since then, I have replaced all my Glock recoil springs with stainless steel or tungsten ones without any problems what so ever. So your post is just not credible to me. Where did you obtain this knowledge from - other than a bunch of posts on forums that have posters disagreeing with each other about the subject.
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Old 08-24-2019, 12:00 PM   #26
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Barbarian .22
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Originally Posted by chandler5566 View Post
Read through virtually all of those and not surprisingly the posts were a complete mix of positive and only mildly negative. End result....nothing except disagreement.

If you take the time to read almost any one of the Walther model forums you will probably discover that a number of design and production failures have produced mush less of the precision firearms you imply the engineers have provided...Those failures have occurred since the creation of the first model right up to today's models and there are a number of members on this forum who have literally assisted those cracker-jack engineers in correcting the errors!
Like the "unintended magazine release" thread perhaps that caused the Walther sales manager to say to me, " Perhaps this pistol is not for you." Yeah right, beautiful piece of engineering that produced a magazine button spring that was too light and had to be replaced.
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:05 AM   #27
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ssivbreger .22
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Originally Posted by olstyn View Post
Sometimes that reason is cost, not performance. Is a plastic guide rod reliable, and does it produce acceptable performance? Yes. Given that, and the fact that the factory has to produce these guns to a price point, plastic is what they choose.

Note, however, that the tungsten rod which you have implied will damage the gun comes from the same factory, and is intended for use in the same gun by those same engineers. (Anyone who claims that a 4" PPQ and a P99 are not effectively the same gun in anything other than the presence/absence of a DA trigger stroke, a decocker, and some cosmetics is not paying attention - as IAOF said, the part numbers for the factory plastic-rod RSAs are the same between them.)

Ultimately, we can't know the long-term effect without testing it, but in my view, it's a very low-risk test. The only reason that I haven't bought the "PPQ" tungsten rod for my P99 is that I'm a cheapskate.
This is good. And (probably ;-) ) correctly.

Itís just that you will answer the widow of the next village fool who will listen to your advice, buy another super-device and will be shot poking around with a delay or stoppage?
Say that your friend bought this and everything works fine for him? :-)

Who performed the functional tests?
Was at least 10,000 rounds of ammunition shot, each of at least three pistols?
Let's guess the first time. ;-)

But there were tests of the American army, in which it turned out that the average reliability of the standard M4 carbine is necessarily reduced when any custom parts are installed on it. Even if it's a handle.
I am sure that absolutely the same thing happens with any weapon that is more complicated than a knife.

The recoil mechanism, in automatic weapons, is one of the most responsible. No less than a feeder.
And apparently you should not randomly climb into it with dirty fingers?

Sincerely.
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Old 08-25-2019, 10:25 AM   #28
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olstyn .22
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Originally Posted by ssivbreger View Post
Who performed the functional tests?
Was at least 10,000 rounds of ammunition shot, each of at least three pistols?
I'd be quite surprised if Walther did not fire more than 10K rounds of ammunition testing the tungsten rod in PPQs, which, as MANY people have already explained MANY times on MANY forums, are the same gun as P99s in all mechanical aspects outside of the trigger.

I expect that the only reason it was not also explicitly tested and marketed for the P99 is that it's a nearly purely competition-focused part, and Walther views the PPQ Q5 and Q5 SF as their competition guns and the P99 as a duty gun.

Again, I'm too cheap to buy it for myself, but if you want to see the results and would be willing to purchase it for me, I'd be more than happy to run a "PPQ" tungsten guide rod in my P99 for 10K+ rounds and let you know how it goes. (My guess is that it would be 100% uneventful - that particular pistol has over 10K through it now, and the only stoppages in its log were a pair of rounds that sounded like squibs but thankfully cleared the barrel.)
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Old 08-25-2019, 10:32 AM   #29
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chandler5566 .22
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Itís just that you will answer the widow of the next village fool who will listen to your advice, buy another super-device and will be shot poking around with a delay or stoppage? Say that your friend bought this and everything works fine for him? :-)
He did not give advice....it was a statement of fact as issued by the manufacturer. If you want spec info you need to contact Walther....good luck with that.

Quote:
But there were tests of the American army, in which it turned out that the average reliability of the standard M4 carbine is necessarily reduced when any custom parts are installed on it. Even if it's a handle.
I am sure that absolutely the same thing happens with any weapon that is more complicated than a knife.
Please provide the military documentation supporting your statement. Here's some excellent information provided by what appears to be an expert in the use and maintenance of the M4 and other military individual weapons. You should read all of the article because he is recommending the use of commercial parts for the maintenance of the M4 and has a lot of test and statistical info.

AR-15/M4/M4A1 Carbine Reliability Issues: Why They Occur, and Why They?re Our Fault! | DefenseReview.com (DR): An online tactical technology and military defense technology magazine with particular focus on the latest and greatest tactical firearms n
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Old 09-23-2019, 08:24 AM   #30
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ssivbreger .22
Quote:
Originally Posted by chandler5566 View Post
He did not give advice....it was a statement of fact as issued by the manufacturer. If you want spec info you need to contact Walther....good luck with that.



Please provide the military documentation supporting your statement. Here's some excellent information provided by what appears to be an expert in the use and maintenance of the M4 and other military individual weapons. You should read all of the article because he is recommending the use of commercial parts for the maintenance of the M4 and has a lot of test and statistical info.

AR-15/M4/M4A1 Carbine Reliability Issues: Why They Occur, and Why They?re Our Fault! | DefenseReview.com (DR): An online tactical technology and military defense technology magazine with particular focus on the latest and greatest tactical firearms n
Do not You find it strange to ask for evidence (or rebuttal) from the same person? :-)
Usually, it was possible to observe similar at the Russian-speaking forums ... ;-)

The articles You indicated were read by me shortly after their publication. And they do not carry any information on the issue under consideration.
Or is it just an attempt to start another empty idle talk about the (no)reliability of the M16? LOL

The information came from a fairly serious source. Otherwise, I simply would not have paid attention to her.
If I can remember where it is, I will let You know. Perhaps those who know English better than me will be able to find faster.
And all sorts of "what appears to be an expert" and other homemade expert of the weapons, like the "world-famous expert Max Popenker", divorced like cows in India.

For those who are really interested in "how it works," it is recommended to study.
https://youtu.be/7Fr5ccyriJI



I hope there is enough material to sum up two and two.

Last edited by ssivbreger; 09-23-2019 at 08:30 AM.
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