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Old 01-31-2020, 04:28 PM   #1
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New P22Q Observations

Picked up my new P22Q yesterday and gave it a good look over after getting home. Haven't had a chance to test fire it yet, but here are a few initial physical observations, and I'm just wondering if anyone else who's bought a recent P22Q are seeing the same things.

This is a date code BK (2019) build with S/N WA248xxx. So it was probably built not too long ago. No test fired case with a date was in the box, so can't narrow production date down. I had to laugh when I saw the "Kontrolle 13" (ie, "Inspector 13") tag in the case.

1) Bottom entrance of the chamber has a 1/2 moon cut-out. I have not seen this on past photos posted of the P22Q chamber. Is this something new? I loaded up a magazine and hand cycled the ammo and it seems to feed and eject fine, but did see some lead shaving on a few (not all) of the rounds. I think the nose of the bullet is sometimes hitting that sharp edge on the bottom entrance area of the chamber. I might have to smooth off that sharp edge slightly. The chamber inside bore finish looks smooth and even ... I inspected that before I paid for the gun after reading about some guys having extraction issues due to irregular chambers. Rifling looks good.

2) The barrel looks to be brazed (?) into the barrel lug, so apparently these parts are heated up during manufacturing. Is this why the lug looks to be a dark brown color? The camera flash really shows this, but it's not nearly as noticeable in normal ambient light - but the lug is not as black as the frame finish. Looks like some of the finish coating is coming off the face of the barrel lug. It's obviously not a blued finish.

3) I noticed the roll pin in the slide near the safety lever is buggered up pretty good. Looks like some guy at the factory was having a bad day and went a little nuts during the installation. Probably can't see it in the photo, but the inner diameter looks like a too small of punch diameter was used, and the inside of the hole in the roll pin is also deformed. I wonder if Walther would send me a new roll pin for this location if I asked them. Don't want to send a gun back just for that.

4) Is the off centered gap as the bottom of the slide between the slide and frame normal? Update - I looked at a new P22Q at a local store today and the gap between the front of the frame and slide looked pretty even on that one, so apparently this can vary between P22s.

Also, the top of the slide is machined out some on the top area of the barrel for some reason. Don't know why Walther would do that since the barrel doesn't move and the slide just moves back and forth on slide rails.

A note about the magazines. On the bottom plate, one of them says "WARNING READ SAFETY MANUAL" and the spare magazine has the Walther logo and says "P22".

One of my magazines had a spot where it would slightly catch while moving the follower up and down. After inspection I found a small protrusion along an inside edge of where they punch out the material for the magazine catch. the end of the follower spring was catching on that small metal protrusion. I was able to pull the follower down and use a very small file to remove that small metal protrusion and that fixed it. It would have worked fine as it was, but I didn't like the slight catching of the spring end at that one location.

Thanks for any comments about these observations.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P22Q Chamber Notes.jpg (202.0 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg P22Q Slide Notes.jpg (123.8 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg P22Q Slide Roll Pin Notes.JPG (193.2 KB, 24 views)

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Old 01-31-2020, 10:36 PM   #2
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Here is the factory work on a 2009 AK P22. It was all I could do to straighten this mess out. By 2011 Walther had gotten their act together. What are you taking your photos with if you don't mind my asking. I'll get to some questions in your post when I get a chance. 1917
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Old 02-01-2020, 12:15 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post
Here is the factory work on a 2009 AK P22. It was all I could do to straighten this mess out. By 2011 Walther had gotten their act together. What are you taking your photos with if you don't mind my asking. I'll get to some questions in your post when I get a chance. 1917

Photos were just taking using my LG K20 cell phone.


I looked at a new P22Q (also BK code, made about 300 units before mine by serial number) at the local gun store, and it also had the little half moon cut-out at the front bottom of the chamber. So apparently this is something Walter is now doing. I think it would be better if the sharp bottom ridge was also smoothed down some.

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Old 02-01-2020, 01:23 PM   #4
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Good photos, especially the top one. The cutout is new to me. I think I'm the one that originally chamfered the bottom lip of the chamber back in about 2004. I had never had any feeding issues there just ran out of stuff to do one day. Walther initially began adding the chamber chamfer but carried it too high on the sides of the chamber making the already thin steel at the extractor cut too thin and in some 2009 models the steel would simply crack off. The one pictured earlier did and I filed the cut down a bit into thicker steel prezackly how Walther is now doing it. I don't know when they started recessing the rear of the extractor cut but I first saw it on my QD. The additional material as shown above I have never seen before. BTW, I never had any feeding issues with the original chamber with no relief.

Why are they doing this? Good question. There have only recently been some extraction issues and rarely then regarding poorly made chambers. I'd be interested to know why this is being done. Does it appear that the tool used to cut and polish the feed ramp simply went deeper into the chamber entrance...either by mistake or on purpose?

The polymer grip has never been perfectly in alignment but doesn't bother anything except looks.

The barrel has never sat perfectly in the center of the muzzle opening. I've seen the same on a number of pistols. Since the frame rails are pretty short and the recoil spring presses forward on the slide I would think there is just enough play ( 0.009") if I remember correctly to allow the nose of the slide to rise a bit. Fixed barrel, no problem.

The finish on the barrel has been like what you see for years. The only thing I see different is that somewhere along the line an additional ring was added toward the muzzle of the actual barrel. Not sure why....planned weak spot to allow the barrel to snap before the frame boss is broken??????? I have no idea.

Way back all roll pins were smooth and the one holding the breech block in would move under recoil. The now slightly protruding end would interfere with operation of the safety. The cure was what I call alligator tooth roll pins. They stay put, are a bit hard to drive in and hard to drive out. Perhaps the roll pin drift was worn. I wouldn't worry about it. But yes, they will probably send you a new roll pin. Be careful not to damage the zinc slide when removing/replacing. I just removed the one on my QD last night because I'm going to put up a thread on how the de-cocker looks and works. There is nothing on line at present.

The extractor when riding up on the extractor cut presses the slide all the way to the right, taking out the small amt of play between the frame and slide grooves. All P22s I've ever looked at have the rear sight slightly off centered to the left. As you shoot you will likely see more finish wear on the left side at the frame rails.

Bottom plate warning is fairly new, at least I don't remember seeing it. Yes the polymer muzzle end can vary a bit. You could probably correct this if it were of concern. And I assume you are talking about the hole being cut out on the muzzle end of the slide where the barrel sits. This is normal. If Walther makes it too tight.....like the original Ruger LCP's, the slide will bind against the barrel sleeve when you lift the rear to remove the slide. Any PP pistol can have the same issue if you try to lift the rear of the slide too high. The cure on the LCP was to give the inside of the hole a little more relief with a file so it would not bind against the barrel. I'm not sure the guide rod didn't have the same issue or perhaps it was the guide rod instead of the barrel. Whatever...the cure was to enlarge the hole.

I always take any mag apart, clean, run the follower up and down and then I remove any rough area from the original sheared stamped side with one of the emery sticks that can be bought at any grocery/Rx store. Very fine grade for this work. I usually stick my thumbnail under the cutout for the follower button for example and drag it along the inside of the slot to feel for anything that is rough....and most are.

Load and start shooting. You might also look back and find the thread I did, with a lot of photos, of my QD when it was new. I will be putting up a thread shortly on how the de-cocking lever works....which has apparently already been dropped....wonder why. As far as I'm concerned it complicates the pistol and I might simply remove the lever. What I don't like about it is that I can't cock the hammer unless the safety is set to fire. I'd rather step to the line, cock the hammer safety still on, then rotate the safety to fire immediately before firing. Waiting for a report on how she shoots. I'd say 5,000 rounds by Sunday night would be a good start. 1917
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Old 02-01-2020, 01:26 PM   #5
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2009 factory extractor cut. Too thin. The steel is beginning to be cracked off. There were other photos of the same issue somewhere back along the line. 1917
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Old 02-01-2020, 01:37 PM   #6
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2005 stock P22 rear chamber. No chamfer of the lower chamber.



Photo of the same chamber after i chamfered the bottom of the chamber entrance. RFC thread....a long time ago. Way back I would correspond with the Chief Engineer in Arnsberg....but they got tired of my foolishness with their pistols and quit taking to me. They did begin chamfering the entrance though and changed the hammer profile, and the ejector, and the mags.... Now if they would add an aluminum slide or perhaps a polymer one with steel inserts. Then the pistol would cycle about anything. And while they are at it....how about thickening up the top of the slide just a bit so aftermarket sights can be added .... like fully adjustable target sights or a small reflex red dot. Nah...they aren't listening to me anymore. 1917
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Old 02-01-2020, 04:20 PM   #7
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For what it's worth, I purchased my P22QD just before Christmas w/ a SN WA2089XX. The breech end of my barrel looks a LOT different than your photo. That half moon shouldn't be there - it's a tool mark from improper machining IMO (the bar went too far). The feed ramp on mine is mirror shiny, much smoother than your's appears. The roll pin on mine has no tools marks whatsoever or the frame. If it were me, I'd return it if possible, there's something not right there, again IMO. It's been over a month since I took mine down & can't recall how the lug looked, but don't remember anything like what you described. I'll be installing a barrel adapter on mine this evening or tomorrow; will remove the slide 1st & take a peek.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeP22Q View Post
Picked up my new P22Q yesterday and gave it a good look over after getting home. Haven't had a chance to test fire it yet, but here are a few initial physical observations, and I'm just wondering if anyone else who's bought a recent P22Q are seeing the same things.

This is a date code BK (2019) build with S/N WA248xxx. So it was probably built not too long ago. No test fired case with a date was in the box, so can't narrow production date down. I had to laugh when I saw the "Kontrolle 13" (ie, "Inspector 13") tag in the case.

1) Bottom entrance of the chamber has a 1/2 moon cut-out. I have not seen this on past photos posted of the P22Q chamber. Is this something new? I loaded up a magazine and hand cycled the ammo and it seems to feed and eject fine, but did see some lead shaving on a few (not all) of the rounds. I think the nose of the bullet is sometimes hitting that sharp edge on the bottom entrance area of the chamber. I might have to smooth off that sharp edge slightly. The chamber inside bore finish looks smooth and even ... I inspected that before I paid for the gun after reading about some guys having extraction issues due to irregular chambers. Rifling looks good.

2) The barrel looks to be brazed (?) into the barrel lug, so apparently these parts are heated up during manufacturing. Is this why the lug looks to be a dark brown color? The camera flash really shows this, but it's not nearly as noticeable in normal ambient light - but the lug is not as black as the frame finish. Looks like some of the finish coating is coming off the face of the barrel lug. It's obviously not a blued finish.

3) I noticed the roll pin in the slide near the safety lever is buggered up pretty good. Looks like some guy at the factory was having a bad day and went a little nuts during the installation. Probably can't see it in the photo, but the inner diameter looks like a too small of punch diameter was used, and the inside of the hole in the roll pin is also deformed. I wonder if Walther would send me a new roll pin for this location if I asked them. Don't want to send a gun back just for that.

4) Is the off centered gap as the bottom of the slide between the slide and frame normal? Update - I looked at a new P22Q at a local store today and the gap between the front of the frame and slide looked pretty even on that one, so apparently this can vary between P22s.

Also, the top of the slide is machined out some on the top area of the barrel for some reason. Don't know why Walther would do that since the barrel doesn't move and the slide just moves back and forth on slide rails.

A note about the magazines. On the bottom plate, one of them says "WARNING READ SAFETY MANUAL" and the spare magazine has the Walther logo and says "P22".

One of my magazines had a spot where it would slightly catch while moving the follower up and down. After inspection I found a small protrusion along an inside edge of where they punch out the material for the magazine catch. the end of the follower spring was catching on that small metal protrusion. I was able to pull the follower down and use a very small file to remove that small metal protrusion and that fixed it. It would have worked fine as it was, but I didn't like the slight catching of the spring end at that one location.

Thanks for any comments about these observations.
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Old 02-01-2020, 06:20 PM   #8
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wrong ammo....wrong pistol.... 1917

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Old 02-02-2020, 04:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post
Good photos, especially the top one. The cutout is new to me. I think I'm the one that originally chamfered the bottom lip of the chamber back in about 2004. I had never had any feeding issues there just ran out of stuff to do one day. Walther initially began adding the chamber chamfer but carried it too high on the sides of the chamber making the already thin steel at the extractor cut too thin and in some 2009 models the steel would simply crack off. The one pictured earlier did and I filed the cut down a bit into thicker steel prezackly how Walther is now doing it. I don't know when they started recessing the rear of the extractor cut but I first saw it on my QD. The additional material as shown above I have never seen before. BTW, I never had any feeding issues with the original chamber with no relief.
The chamber entrance chamfer is definitely not too high on the sides now, and there's lots of material between the chamber and extractor cut-out as you can see in my photo. Like I mentioned earlier, I loaded up both magazines and manually operated the slide and they all fed and extracted fine (the exactor does catch the case lip well too). Only thing I saw was some bullets had some slight lead shaving due to the sharp edge on the bottom of the chamber entrance - shaved the nose as it went over that sharp edge. Hand cycling may not be the same as actual firing the gun, but I'd have to fire into a barrel of water or something to capture some non-deformed fired bullets to inspect for lead shaving. I'll probably smooth down that sharp chamber entrance edge some with some fine sandpaper on a wood dowel or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post
Why are they doing this? Good question. There have only recently been some extraction issues and rarely then regarding poorly made chambers. I'd be interested to know why this is being done. Does it appear that the tool used to cut and polish the feed ramp simply went deeper into the chamber entrance...either by mistake or on purpose?
I don't think that's the case, because if so the sharp lip wouldn't still be there on the bottom of the chamber. I looked at new a P22Q at the local store that was made about 300 units in S/N before mine, and it too had the same half moon cut-out at the bottom entrance of the chamber. It seems the area between the ramp and the half moon cut-out should also have been machined or smoothed out some to make that transition area between the end of the feed ramp and chamber entrance more uniform. I might do some hand work on mine to do that. Lots of 9mm semi-autos have the feed ramp extend into the bottom of the chamber entrance, and that slight area of the chamber being gone doesn't hurt in case support even in a 9mm because the case is thicker at the base and can get by without full chamber support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post
The polymer grip has never been perfectly in alignment but doesn't bother anything except looks.
The P22Q I looked at that was S/N ~300 before mine had a much better slide to frame alignment gap at the nose. Yes, it's just a visual thing. But seems like there is some variance in how the metal guts sit in the polymer frame which allows variance in the slide-to-frame gap. Or they have multiple frame molds, and they vary sightly between molds. Stuff like that bugs me. Luck of the draw on getting one with even frame to slide gaps at the nose. I ordered mine because I wanted the olive drab and black "military" model. I usually only buy guns I can look at first. I did look at this one when it came in, but of course you never see half the stuff until you get it home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post
The finish on the barrel has been like what you see for years. The only thing I see different is that somewhere along the line an additional ring was added toward the muzzle of the actual barrel. Not sure why....planned weak spot to allow the barrel to snap before the frame boss is broken??????? I have no idea.
Yeah, I figured the finish on the rear area of the barrel was probably normal - looks discolored from heat from the looks of it. Again, comparing to the other P22Q I saw, mine seemed more "brown" looking ... but it kind of goes with the olive drab frame, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post
Way back all roll pins were smooth and the one holding the breech block in would move under recoil. The now slightly protruding end would interfere with operation of the safety. The cure was what I call alligator tooth roll pins. They stay put, are a bit hard to drive in and hard to drive out. Perhaps the roll pin drift was worn. I wouldn't worry about it. But yes, they will probably send you a new roll pin. Be careful not to damage the zinc slide when removing/replacing. I just removed the one on my QD last night because I'm going to put up a thread on how the de-cocker looks and works. There is nothing on line at present.
The roll pin end on the LH side is buggered up as the photo showed. The roll pin end on the RH side looks pretty good. It was probably driven in from the LH side. The safety lever on the LH side just barely missed the end of the roll pin when in the "Fire" position. I think it probably did interfere initially, and the guy who installed the roll pin then banged the crap out of it to smash it down to clear the safety lever instead of using a new roll pin and doing it right.

I'm not so sure mine has the "alligator tooth roll pin", because if I look at the roll pin from the bottom of the slide, I don't see any "teeth" on the OD of the roll-pin. Can you see the "teeth" on the OD if you remove the slide and look at the exposed OD of the roll pin?

I'll probably call Walther Customer Service this week and see what's going on, and see if they'll send me a new roll pin in case I decide to change it out. Not sure if I'm going to leave it as is or not. Always leery of doing more harm than good on something like this. Roll pins can be a royal pain sometimes. I can use some Perma Blue past on the ends of the roll pin to at least blue them to hide the shiny metal. I've done that on a few other guns because the roll pin ends were shiny from installation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post
The extractor when riding up on the extractor cut presses the slide all the way to the right, taking out the small amt of play between the frame and slide grooves. All P22s I've ever looked at have the rear sight slightly off centered to the left. As you shoot you will likely see more finish wear on the left side at the frame rails.
I just checked mine, and the rear sight is pretty darn close to being centered with the hammer, so maybe not as bad as I initially thought. I can see wear marks already on the LH side of the side cut-out edge on the inside surface where it rubs on the barrel lug, and on the LH side of the barrel lug at the chamber (from hand cycling the slid a bunch). I put a thin layer of lube on those contacting/sliding surfaces.

And yes, if I pull the slide back about 1/2 inch, you can feel some decent side-to-side rail clearance (slide rails are pretty short and just at the rear of the frame). The side-t0-side slop is not as noticeable when the slide is up against the chamber.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post
Bottom plate warning is fairly new, at least I don't remember seeing it. Yes the polymer muzzle end can vary a bit. You could probably correct this if it were of concern. And I assume you are talking about the hole being cut out on the muzzle end of the slide where the barrel sits. This is normal. If Walther makes it too tight.....like the original Ruger LCP's, the slide will bind against the barrel sleeve when you lift the rear to remove the slide. Any PP pistol can have the same issue if you try to lift the rear of the slide too high. The cure on the LCP was to give the inside of the hole a little more relief with a file so it would not bind against the barrel. I'm not sure the guide rod didn't have the same issue or perhaps it was the guide rod instead of the barrel. Whatever...the cure was to enlarge the hole.
Your comment in red makes sense ... I see now that the chamfer in the top of the barrel cut-out hole at the front of the slide is required for slide removal from the fixed barrel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post
Load and start shooting. You might also look back and find the thread I did, with a lot of photos, of my QD when it was new.
I saw that thread and photos ... the roll pin in the slide on yours was perfect. I got "Inspector 13" ... lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1917-1911M View Post
I will be putting up a thread shortly on how the de-cocking lever works....which has apparently already been dropped....wonder why. As far as I'm concerned it complicates the pistol and I might simply remove the lever. What I don't like about it is that I can't cock the hammer unless the safety is set to fire. I'd rather step to the line, cock the hammer safety still on, then rotate the safety to fire immediately before firing. Waiting for a report on how she shoots. I'd say 5,000 rounds by Sunday night would be a good start. 1917
Only reason I can think on why Walther dropped the decocker is because if you put the safety lever to "Safe", then the hammer decocks and you'd have to put the safety lever to "Fire" and then shoot double action. Without the decocker, you can put the pistol in "Safe" and the hammer is still cocked, so all you have to do is put the safety on "Fire" and shoot single action. If you really want the hammer down, then just do it manually with the safety on "Safe".

I'll let you know how it shoots (feeding, extraction and accuracy with some different ammo) when I get a chance to go to the range. Thanks for all the inputs 1917-1911M.

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Old 02-02-2020, 04:20 PM   #10
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Way back I would correspond with the Chief Engineer in Arnsberg....but they got tired of my foolishness with their pistols and quit taking to me. They did begin chamfering the entrance though and changed the hammer profile, and the ejector, and the mags....
It's good that they listen to people who use these pistols. Kind of sad though that customers have to figure out their engineering tweaks for improvements. I'm sure they wouldn't want to talk to me either, I'd be too critical, lol.

I think there is too much variance in production (sloppy workmanship) and QA (true for most man made items), which causes more issues than the design. If manufacturing can't produce what the design drawings show, then problems occur.
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