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Old 11-22-2019, 07:34 PM   #1
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bill noon .22
New very early production PPK/S Owner from SoCal

Good day everyone. New owner here of a very early 9mm Kurtz/380APC, PPK/S with 1968 proof marks and 1969 production date.

S/N is 136058S and as far as I can tell, it would have been made some time in January to March of 1969. I bought it as it meets C&R rules which makes it legal in California. It was complete with the original "alligator" box, manual, test-target, loaded round indicator tool and both magazines. the spare magazine was still wrapped and filled with grease and from my inspection, it appears to have likely only been fired when new for testing. It apparently sat in its box for many years prior to finding a home with me.

After it gets out of California Gun jail, in ten days, I will add it to my CCW license and use it as a back up carry peice.

I am fairly excited. I had a much later production InterArms PPK about 15 years ago but foolishly sold it and they are no longer legal in California.

I will try and attach some photos and hope they get through.

Cheers,

Bill
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Old 11-23-2019, 02:09 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill noon View Post
Good day everyone. New owner here of a very early 9mm Kurtz/380APC, PPK/S with 1968 proof marks and 1969 production date.
...
Welcome to the forum.

Sorry to correct you, but there's a little mistake in your quote above:
The proof marks are from 1969, as it's also to be seen on your attached picture. It's also not possible, that proof marks have an earlier date than the production date, because according to the respective German law normaly only complete weapons are tested.

And a second hint from a German: The correct spelling is 9mm kurz (without t), kurz = short.
I hope, you are not angry about my little corrections.
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Old 11-23-2019, 04:18 AM   #3
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:38 AM   #4
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Welcome from South Carolina.
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Old 11-23-2019, 09:51 AM   #5
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Greetings from eastern NC
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Old 11-23-2019, 01:11 PM   #6
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bill noon .22
Good morning and thank you kindly everyone.

You are correct about the spelling GMork, much appreciated. I did not mean to imply that the proof marks could have possibly been added before this PPK/S was assembled, only they were the new type that was first used in 1968 or so according to Dieter H. Marschall's Walther Pistols Model 1 to PPX as shown on page 255. The barrel also has the Ulm Antler proof mark as well.

Even though the grips and frame are stamped made in Germany, I believe this PPK/S was assembled or part assembled in Manurhin and the given final assembly in Germany where the proof marks were also stamped. I am correct on this?

Cheers,

Bill
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Old 11-23-2019, 03:31 PM   #7
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Bill, welcome to the forum. You're right about France. Your PPK/S was pre-produced in Mulhouse by Manurhin (that's the name of the company) and then rushed to Ulm for the final works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMork View Post
And a second hint from a German: The correct spelling is 9mm kurz (without t), kurz = short.


The spelling of "kurz" with a "t" on a slide simply hurz, um, hurts our eyes.
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Old 11-23-2019, 03:56 PM   #8
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According to my German edition of Marschall's book all PPK/S from 1968 to 1985 are produced by Manurhin, SN 134 941 to 269 008. Your PPK/S belongs to this number range. Nevertheless all these pistols have the labeling Walther/Ulm.
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Old 11-23-2019, 04:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balogh View Post
Bill, welcome to the forum. You're right about France. Your PPK/S was pre-produced in Mulhouse by Manurhin (that's the name of the company) and then rushed to Ulm for the final works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMork View Post
And a second hint from a German: The correct spelling is 9mm kurz (without t), kurz = short.


The spelling of "kurz" with a "t" on a slide simply hurz, um, hurts our eyes. <img src="https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)" class="inlineimg" />
Your picture is a fake made by a picture program, isn't it?
At least such mistake could not happen in Ulm/Germany.
For a German engineer or worker such mistake is impossible because you learn already in the primary school, that tz is forbidden after r, that means, only ..rz... is correct. Only in German family names you can find seldomly ...rtz... .
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Old 11-23-2019, 04:22 PM   #10
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bill noon .22
Thank you again everyone.

If production did not skip any numbers, which I am assuming they did not, I believe this is the 1,117th 9mm/380APC PPK/S completed sequentially by the serial number.

There was a small piece of paper inside the manual with a pencilled in note that says "Purchased by father at PX in Feb. 69"

I am assuming it might have been gifted to a family member at some point and was originally sold on a military base. "PX" is probably post exchange.

If it was sold in February of 1969, it would have had to have been built sometime between January 1st 1969 and no later than February 28th of the same year.

Does anyone know a better way of dating an early PPK/S?

Cheers,

Bill
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