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Old 06-20-2014, 07:04 AM   #1
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USPSA Cheating Scandal

Range Officer Cheating Scandal in United States Practical Shooting Association | Gun Nuts Media
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Old 06-20-2014, 07:33 PM   #2
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Been going on for ages, and not just at that range. Another cheat is when they let a shooter do a shoot over, because they had malfunction or bad ammo (they do it some places). Reasons I no longer bother with competitions (that and bad knees precluding such activity now).
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Old 06-21-2014, 01:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P99pete View Post
Been going on for ages, and not just at that range. Another cheat is when they let a shooter do a shoot over, because they had malfunction or bad ammo (they do it some places). Reasons I no longer bother with competitions (that and bad knees precluding such activity now).
I don't think a lack of integrity is an overwhelming issue in the sport at all. That's not saying it does not happen, but I think the vast majority of shooters and RO's do not need to be tarred and feathered with the same brush by suggesting it goes on in other places. It happens, but not often.
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Old 06-21-2014, 07:50 PM   #4
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Somebody was saying there is also a thing going on with major/minor ammo. Guys turn in one thing at the start of the match and it's never looked at again, so they then run whatever they want in the actual shoot.

I'm not a competitive shooter so don't know all the details, but that's the gist of it.
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Old 06-21-2014, 09:32 PM   #5
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I frequently shot practical pistol matches in the 1980's and 1990's in Area 3 and again in 2004-2007 in Area 1 and 3.

I never saw anything that I'd out and out call cheating but I saw an awful lot of things that I think would fall under the category of "good ol' boy" behavior at local area matches where a judgement call might go one way or the other depending on who was shooting and who was the RO for that stage.

If there is a motive for the cheating here, it's just something as simple as that.

For what it's worth I saw the same thing as a high power shooter in matches where I'd be shooting side by side against state team members and consistently beating them. It did not take long before they'd start being moved to different relays where lower scores could be blamed on differing/more challenging conditions. I took it for what it was - a compliment on my shooting ability.

None of it's fair, but not much in life is.
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Old 06-22-2014, 01:22 AM   #6
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*sigh*

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, but I do love when people with zero information on the topic at hand have ready formed opinions, and know exactly what's going on.

The truth is some folks over at Doodie Project caught what was happening with a specific Range Officer. Certain shooters would do better or worse with him as the R.O. and when looking at video, it became clear that the actual time was not was given as the official time that was recorded. The implication was that if he liked you, and you may have run a stage in say 15 seconds, he would call out 14 seconds, if he did not like you it may have been called out at 17 seconds.

Original Link

Some examples:

http://youtu.be/Q_bEyGPa8IA
Official times were all about 2 seconds lower than actual times per stage.

http://youtu.be/6ugf4976GMc
Official times were about 2 seconds higher than the actual times per stage.

List of found issues

So, some questions are raised about ethics, but the shooters who benefited did so consistently, and joined the squad with this RO for the staff shoot, were they aware that their scores were being doctored lower? Who knew, how may people were involved?

These are not local matches, they are Level 2 and up matches, so this is not "good ol' boy" behavior in the least, and this is not a judgement call. It's out and out cheating, and not just in one direction, it's benefiting friends, and costing people the RO did not care for. Mind you, the R.O. in question is a retired police officer, so it certainly raises the question how ethical was this guy while at work.

The USPSA board is investigating the claims, and right now, that's all they are, claims. It's a fair amount of evidence being presented, but it's definitely a shame one individual could drag things into such disrepute.

As far as the ammo, that's why major matches run a chrono stage. Can people cheat to beat it? Sure, but again, that's an ethics question, and honestly if someone has to cheat that way in order to finish better, they certainly are not a good shooter to begin with.

As far as giving people a re-do for a malfunction, I've certainly never seen it. If you've seen it, then that's an ethics question as well, it's certainly not something that is rampant, and at Level 2 (one step up from club matches) it's non-existent.

Far be it for facts or accurate info to stand in the way of anyone's opinion.....
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Old 06-22-2014, 02:33 AM   #7
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Most of the time it's an ego thing. I won't mention any names, but I have witnessed a shooter, who writes articles for the various gun rags, cheat quite often. They have been know to officiate at matches and then change scores to me make themselves look better. Even on shooting exercise at a class or workshop, if someone does better from a cold start, they will shoot the same exercise over and over again until they get a better time just to reinforce their uber self image. Man, if you can't do it cold, repeating it until you do it better does not prove anything except your excess of ego. Everyone in my area knows who it is and has not only a low opinion of them but of their published articles too. It's wonder someone did not call them out on it already. Would demolish their writing career, which may be a good thing too. Just saying. In any case cheating has existed in this probably as long as the sport has existed.
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Old 06-22-2014, 11:26 AM   #8
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That goes along with the "not quite cheating, good ol' boy network" kind of thing. For example, if the person(s) running the local club match set up the stages the day before, then shoot them a few times while doing test runs, or tweak the set up to better fit the things they personally do well, then it clearly gives them an edge the next day when shooting for score. Is it cheating in a strict interpretation of the word? Probably not. Is it fair? Clearly not.

A similar unfair advantage is conveyed when a shooter shoots a match with multiple guns or in multiple classes. The second run through the course does not have the same challenge or degree of difficulty as shooting it for the first time and the score for the second run can be expected to be better than the first. Letting a shooter repeat a stage due to a malfunction or ammo problem carries with it the same unfair advantage.

Is it widespread? Probably not even at the club level, but you'll know it when you see it.
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Old 06-23-2014, 04:02 AM   #9
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Yeah, not sure why the let people do do overs. In real life you do not get to hit the replay button, so man up. I figure if your gun or ammo chokes, it is your chance to practice immediate remedial action drills, just like in real life.
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