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-   -   Training and ammo cost? (https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/gear-gadgets-tactics-training/122032-training-ammo-cost.html)

Pnw_steve 01-16-2020 02:09 PM

Training and ammo cost?
 
Hey Everyone,

I have not been shooting like I used to. I had a flexible work schedule and a nice range close by. I managed 3-5 visits a week. I was reloading and had enough disposable income that ammo costs were not an issue.

Fast forward to today.... My reloading bench is gone and I am on a fixed income. I am trying to get back into regular practice of training and regular range visits.

Unfortunately factory ammo prices are killing me.

I have been considering a .22 pistol for practice due to the cheaper ammo.

Is this a good idea? I would prefer training with the gun and ammo that I carry but it just is not practical.

I am considering replacing my PPK with a PPS. What would you recommend for a .22 trainer that would most closely compare to the PPS?

Thanks.

spin40 01-16-2020 03:31 PM

I suggest a Walther P22 if you decide to go with a .22 practice gun. I have a P22 Target that I use when my grandsons come to the range with me. It doesn't like cheap ammo, but it will still save you some bucks.


I had ammo cost issues too, but I didn't want to practice defensive skills using a .22. Therefore, to address the cost issue and my training need, I plan my range day with a limited amount of ammo focusing on two or three skill drills per session.



I also take notes on the gun(s) I'm shooting to help plan the next session or pinpoint a need to focus on in the future. The note taking helps me stay focused on the plan, gives me time to relax between drills, and I feel I'm getting more bang for my buck.

1942bull 01-16-2020 03:34 PM

your post strikes home for me. I am 77, and once upon a time ammo costs were negligible in my budget. That was then, but now I have to watch my expenses carefully because of a fixed income that does not grow as fast an inflation of many basic needs. Oh that I were rich, but I am not.

Four years ago I bought a M&P 22 Compact for practice since I carried a M&P 9mm Compact. I must say that was a waste of $350 plus the cost of 22 LR ammo. There is no similarity between the two there than physical size.

What I found was that as I shot the 22 more and more I lost the feel of shooting the 9mm. I sold the 22 and went back to the 9mm exclusively. Clearly the 22 would be a good way for the novice shooter to learn, but it is not a good way for the experienced shooter to practice.

My course of action was set by my perceived need. I was not interested in being target shooter. If I had been I would have kept the 22. I had a gun for self defense, and that is nor similar to target shooting. I spent a lot of time researching best training practices for personal self defense. Too me that meant training for the most likely scenario, an encounter from face-to-face out to 25 feet, one-on-one with an armed adversary. I had plenty of training in the Corps for shooting and scooting from cover to cover, and realizing that was not what I would ever likely face in my civilian life I just trained and practiced for the likely scenario as I mentioned above.

The cost of ammunition was a concern since I believe one should train with the same ammo that they might have to use in a real life situation. After extensive research I settled on Winchester Train & Defend 147 gr 9mm ammo. Both round have the same weight and ballistic characteristics. The train ammo is inexpensive compared to the Defend ammo. I bought it and shot it an could not distinguish between the two rounds when fired. The FNJ and JHP rounds were the same except for expansion.

Then I decided to employ practicing for CQB situations. They are the most likely to be encountered in civilian life. That meant training for incapacitating hits rather than tight groups. I expend my training ammo to improve my ability to hit in the most lethal center mass areas. I recently began practicing for proficiency at head shots up to 25 feet. It takes little ammo to gain proficiency if you are take your time and think about it.

PPS1980 01-16-2020 05:03 PM

22LR allows you to practice aiming properly and good trigger discipline and control. It does not substitute for putting rounds through your carry weapon, it supplements it. I shoot 22LR regularly but I also put 100 rounds through my carry weapon at least 2x/month (if not more).

Edelbd6c 01-16-2020 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pnw_steve (Post 1230976)
Hey Everyone,

I have not been shooting like I used to. I had a flexible work schedule and a nice range close by. I managed 3-5 visits a week. I was reloading and had enough disposable income that ammo costs were not an issue.

Fast forward to today.... My reloading bench is gone and I am on a fixed income. I am trying to get back into regular practice of training and regular range visits.

Unfortunately factory ammo prices are killing me.

I have been considering a .22 pistol for practice due to the cheaper ammo.

Is this a good idea? I would prefer training with the gun and ammo that I carry but it just is not practical.

I am considering replacing my PPK with a PPS. What would you recommend for a .22 trainer that would most closely compare to the PPS?

Thanks.

Practicing with a gun that isn't your carry gun isn't practice. Shooting a .22 is good for learning fundamentals and recreation but that is all. I order ammo from sportmansguide, anything over $50 is free shipping. I buy the cheapest range ammo my gun will run. Black friday is also another good time to stock ammo. You can get a year's supply or more for 50% off. Also if money is tight I consider ammo a part of my grocery budget which is a necessity. I will not purchase things I don't need (coffee, chips, drinks) over not purchasing ammo.

Andyd_is_PzGren 01-21-2020 06:59 AM

Pnw_steve,

like you I used to shoot a lot in the 1990s, a hundred .38 Special reloads did cost me around $5 and 9mm and .45 were not that much more. I was just reminded by a friend that I shot 3,500 rounds a months back in the days that I competed in dynamic shooting competitions.
In the last decade, I have slowed my shooting exercise down, having gone on average only once a week as my job involved heavy international travel.

I do not agree with previous posters that a .22 l.r. is only a tool for beginners to learn basics, or for leisure, while the "serious" shooter practices with his carry gun only. For me the .22 l.r. is a part of my training routine. It is the gun that I shoot 50 rounds through to warm up, from target transitions, rapid fire, all the way to 25 yards accuracy.

If someone cannot shoot a .22, he will not be impressive with a centerfire, either, and currently I am going shooting again at least twice a week at a busy range and have not been impressed by the shooting I have seen.

Edelbd6c 01-22-2020 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andyd_is_PzGren (Post 1231796)
Pnw_steve,

like you I used to shoot a lot in the 1990s, a hundred .38 Special reloads did cost me around $5 and 9mm and .45 were not that much more. I was just reminded by a friend that I shot 3,500 rounds a months back in the days that I competed in dynamic shooting competitions.
In the last decade, I have slowed my shooting exercise down, having gone on average only once a week as my job involved heavy international travel.

I do not agree with previous posters that a .22 l.r. is only a tool for beginners to learn basics, or for leisure, while the "serious" shooter practices with his carry gun only. For me the .22 l.r. is a part of my training routine. It is the gun that I shoot 50 rounds through to warm up, from target transitions, rapid fire, all the way to 25 yards accuracy.

If someone cannot shoot a .22, he will not be impressive with a centerfire, either, and currently I am going shooting again at least twice a week at a busy range and have not been impressed by the shooting I have seen.

Warming up on a .22 is not the same as only training on it and pretending it handles the same as your carry gun. When I qualify we have to use our carry guns and there is a reason for that. No one is shooting a .22 at qualifications because it doesn't do a great job at mimicking other rounds. If you only train on a .22 and try qualifying with a .45 good luck, not going to pass. Just changing your trigger will change your accuracy regardless of recoil, let alone caliber.


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