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Old 06-05-2013, 11:06 AM   #11
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jestermx6 .22
he's expanding on our comments about not wanting to use +P and +p+ ammo in the pk380
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:08 PM   #12
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eddbrowne .22
Now and then I notice folks mention +p, which could make the
marginal 380 more potent. (and give expanders a better chance)

Even though the PK appears to be cleared for +p,
I'm not sure that I want to go there, partly due
to the cautionary language in the manual.

I guess I might test some +p and have a mag
ready for some situations. .But never +p+.
Certainly the source of the +p would be very
important, since the SAAMI specs are more crucial.
.
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Proofread b4 post . .PK380 (if in good order, it won't jam from a weak hold).
Chinese chips open US systems without detection. busn-insider-chinastole
US can't keep secrets.(China has complete designs of US nukes). . worldometers.info

Last edited by eddbrowne; 06-05-2013 at 12:17 PM. Reason: tweaks
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:27 PM   #13
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jestermx6 .22
this is kind of a noobish question but, on the subject of penetration for self defense i started thinking,

is there something inherently wrong with loading a magazine with, say, some expanding rounds with a few FMJ on top of the magazine?

you get a few FMJ rounds to break through glass/armor or whatever you might need to penetrate (essentially giving you some stopping power by doing damage to an attacker), and then expanding rounds, not necessarily to thread through the same hole you made with the FMJ because that's just silly, but assuming a round or two of FMJ maybe slowed an approaching attacker down, you may have an extra second for a well placed expanding round to a leg or another unprotected area.

i realize there's no way to "plan" a defense situation, and it goes against the whole KISS method (personally, i'd never have more than one type of round in my pistol). i'm simply continuing the conversation with a hypothetical.

Last edited by jestermx6; 06-05-2013 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:18 PM   #14
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eddbrowne .22
That seems like a reasonable hedge against the limitations in each type.

If the right expander is chosen, and it feeds reliably,
maybe alternating expanders with fmj is reasonable.

I see cautions against mixing ammo; jamming risk; rimlock maybe.
But I might mix ammo if I've tested the mix enough.

I always have a round chambered, so that would be an expander,
since the risk of misfeeding is lower with fmj.

.
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Proofread b4 post . .PK380 (if in good order, it won't jam from a weak hold).
Chinese chips open US systems without detection. busn-insider-chinastole
US can't keep secrets.(China has complete designs of US nukes). . worldometers.info
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:41 PM   #15
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HogWild .22
re: .380 ACP self-defense ammo recommendations

Back to the original question, for a low power round like the 380 Auto it seems you wouldn't want an expanding bullet that expands to a large diameter limiting penetration. The Hornady CD is a good example of an expanding bullet that doesn't expand too large. Are there other similar limited expansion defense bullets?
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:57 PM   #16
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eddbrowne .22
The crucial feature for expanding ammo is whether it will cycle reliably.

I keep one Win PDX1 in the chamber, but it does not feed well.
The rounds in the mag are fmj, but if I was to add an expander in the mag,
it would be Hornady FTX because of it's narrow nose and low expansion
usually without disintegration.
As I recall, I had no problems with cycling of FTX.

I have not kept up with expanding bullets for a few years.
There might be others that would work well for me.

Cost of special ammo is also an issue, since proving function
in a gun can cost up to 200usd if there are issues and adjustments.
(They run a buck each, if available. Maybe more now.)
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Proofread b4 post . .PK380 (if in good order, it won't jam from a weak hold).
Chinese chips open US systems without detection. busn-insider-chinastole
US can't keep secrets.(China has complete designs of US nukes). . worldometers.info

Last edited by eddbrowne; 06-05-2013 at 10:55 PM. Reason: Price and availabity.
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Old 06-05-2013, 06:04 PM   #17
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HogWild .22
re: .380 ACP self-defense ammo recommendations

$200, ouch!......and that assumes you can find it!
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:52 PM   #18
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If you go on youtube you can see for yourself that some expand and some don't. It seems once the four layers of denim is applied to the testing, most start to fail.
Gold dots and critical defense seem to work best for this with gold dot being a bonded round which stays together. So do you accept that the expanded rounds only go in 9, 10 and 11 inches at the most? If so and you feel confident go with these rounds. If you feel it's not enough then ball is the only option, or is it? Why not use Remington golden sabers that don't expand with denim, penetrates deep with 102 bullet and the front of the nose at least cuts tissue. Unlike ball ammo with a smooth frontal area. Just a thought!
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:19 PM   #19
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eddbrowne .22
EDIT: I should have looked for video of tests with denim.
The Federal and Remington all clogged with denim at these low energies,
and failed to expand. The Corbon had small expansion [+p+?].
At least the Hornady FTX has a plug to prevent clogging.
Other than one FTX in the pipe, I will not use a 380 expander.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My original comment entry:
Based on an article by an anonymous source put forth by Chuck Hawks

at 380 ammo For Self-Defense .... (August 2012)
it appears that the two best standard pressure options might be
Federal 90gr Hydrashok and Remington 102gr Golden Saber.
The following is from the article's author:
The Remington 88 grain JHP is the most reliably-feeding hollowpoint,
but slightly less effective than the Hydra-shok or Cor-Bon.
Reliability is crucial, and thus you must test the rounds before carrying.
I recommend the following two cartridges:
Federal 90 grain Hydra-shok (the best standard-pressure load)
Cor-Bon 90 grain JHP - the most powerful .380 hollowpoint [+p+ ?]
Another good .380 acp jhp:
Remington 102 grain Golden Saber BJHP
Many like this new Remington round for its deeper penetration.
-----------------------------------------------
.

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Proofread b4 post . .PK380 (if in good order, it won't jam from a weak hold).
Chinese chips open US systems without detection. busn-insider-chinastole
US can't keep secrets.(China has complete designs of US nukes). . worldometers.info

Last edited by eddbrowne; 06-07-2013 at 12:33 AM. Reason: Denim clogs Federal 90gr, Rem 88gr, and Rem 102gr
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:47 AM   #20
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Check this out on you tube "Hog's head and the 380 gold dot". I was really impressed by the gold dot round. This is the video that really convinced me that a tough bonded bullet is really the only was to go. Something about the sabers that appeals to me. I just wish remington would adjust their bjhp to expand and not clog up when denim is applied.
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