PP Repair - 1969 .32, hammer following slide and parts missing. Pics and specs - Page 12 - WaltherForums
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Old 04-25-2014, 12:28 PM   #111
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'17, would it help any of I posted some up close & personal pictures of the lockwork of my PP? I'm sure you've got the mechanism figured out by now, but I'm just wondering if it'd help. I find mysel wanting to get to the bottom of this mystery as much as you!

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Old 04-25-2014, 01:17 PM   #112
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'17, would it help any of I posted some up close & personal pictures of the lockwork of my PP? I'm sure you've got the mechanism figured out by now, but I'm just wondering if it'd help. I find myself wanting to get to the bottom of this mystery as much as you!

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Oh, we are going to get it sorted if I have to go from muzzle to magazine. Put up some good pictures. My latest idea after holding the trigger back too hard is....there is just a little wear at the disconnector bump on the trigger bar. The outer edge is worn just a tad and this might make the slide shove the TB in against the frame. I don't see that that should cause a problem. Today I will go shoot up to 50 rounds with just my finger tip. If I have a follow through...I will stop and scratch my head some more. It is hard for me to believe something is just that little bit off. I sure can't see anything and yesterday was Rem ammo and Sellior which should rule out ammo issues. As you can see from the videos...the pistol does know how to function 99 out of 100 rounds. No death grip on the pistol and especially trigger today and I will report how she runs.

Had a dream last night that Mike showed up at my farm with his wife (don't know if he has a wife) anyway, he lit into all my firearms and was having a great time explaining this or that, had his tools and was having at it. I was all ears. Then I woke up.

I'm not exactly sure what you should post pictures of. How the trigger bar sits at rest from the right side, how the trigger bar sits with the hammer cocked. What I'm wondering...will a trigger bar from an Interarms .380 fit in a '69 PP. I just can't figure out what would cause the hammer to drop those few time when I released the trigger.. Most of the time when the trigger was released the sear remained caught. I can feel a jump of the trigger when firing if using the tip of my finger, like when the slide might be tapping the trigger bar disconnector or something. Does everyone feel that? I guess I should also grab some .380 and see if that brand new PPK/S works. Haven't even fired it yet. Looks to clean and shiny to shoot. Sure wish it had been a .22 or .32. But, a new free PPK/S Interarms is nothing to not be happy about. M1911
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Old 04-25-2014, 07:16 PM   #113
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Just a shot in the dark here, but have you checked any wiggle with the cocking piece and the rivets that rotate in the frame? I have seen frame holes that have key-holed from wear and the cocking piece/rivet assembly move away when the hammer contact area rests against it and do a downward missalignment and dissengage from the hammer contact. A good way to check this is to remove the grips and have everything at rest (hammer down) to start a double action shooting sequence. Pull slowly on the trigger and the trigger bar will start to pull the cocking piece to engage the hammer sear. If you see the cocking piece move a lot then there is a sign that the frame or rivets are worn.
Another test is to have the grips off and thumb cock the hammer to a single action mode. Just pull the hammer back and don't touch the trigger. Let the hammer go and it will index on the cocking piece and see if the cocking piece shifts. Once it is indexed, push on the back of the hammer spur and see if the fit has any shift as you let it down on the cocking piece. Also, in single action mode, push down hard forward on the hammer spur and see if it skips off the cocking piece engagement.
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Old 04-25-2014, 09:58 PM   #114
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Thanks Viper.....the sear, cocking piece seems to be fine. Rivets in good shape, barely any play. The part does not move up or down, back or forth any noticeable amount. It is not tight though like binding. The hammer will not slip off of the sear pressing on the hammer, slamming the slide shut or banging the pistol at all points on a towel...banging it pretty hard too.

I've been looking at the de-cocking lever and notice that the hammer drops at just the tinest amount past the middle of the red circle. That would seem to indicate the part isn't sticking up too high.

Lifting the slide up and down at the rear I can feel just a bit of tolerance gap, not much though. Any less and I couldn't feel anything. I've been trying to rule out parts. Frame, slide, safety, trigger guard, magazine, hammer strut, mainspring. That leaves;

The chamber, smooth, spent case fits in and out with very little drag
The trigger-it seems to be in good shape
The trigger bar. It is straight, roughly ground, some polished areas from rubbing on the frame, is straight and not warped. Fits loosely into the hole at the trigger. Can be wobbled about some here when out of the pistol. Fits smoothly into the frame. Does not come out flush with the outer edge of the sear on the right side. Does not slip and fully lifts into the cocking hook when pulling the trigger. 3/16" take up on the trigger when the hammer is cocked until the trigger bar tightens up against the sear.

The trigger moves smoothly, there is just a tiny amount of wear to the top of the tb disconnector. There does not appear to be any binding at any point.

The hammer hook looks good, two hammers did the same thing. There is no wobble in the hammer. The plunger has a new spring and the hammer block seems to move freely. With the original hammer, the hammer block can not be held upward with the hammer down on it. It still slips downward. The new hammer would hold it partially in the up position but the slightest movement rearward of the hammer would allow it to fully drop. This does not seem to be an issue with the original hammer, smoother hammer face. Allowing the hammer to rest all the way forward while holding the trigger so that the DA cocking lever stays disengaged allows the trigger to be pulled rotating the sear up and down and compressing the hammer block plunger spring. It does not delay on the drop or stick.

With the hammer back I can lightly press the trigger bar downward and it stays down regardless of the trigger spring pressure. As the trigger is lightly pulled the rear of the trigger bar jerkily rises up. It jumps up in about three segments. This might not be the proper function but as the trigger continues to be pulled it does move all the way up to engage the cocking piece hook. I now see why it is sticking somewhat. The rear of the trigger bar disengagement half circle is pressing against the front of the sear just forward of the sear trigger bar hook. I will check that against my PPK/S. There seems to be more than enough play between the face of the trigger bar catch and the sear hook. With the trigger guard locked up using a pop sickle stick, the trigger can not be pulled far enough rearward to release the hammer. Part of the trigger guard blocks the hammer. Checking movement of the trigger bar in the new PPK/S Interarms, fitment and drag is the same. The trigger bar appears to be mim'd steel and there are no grinding marks. The ejector seems mim'd also. I can't tell about the hammer. There is no seam. Another pistol, subject for another thread. Appears to function very similar tolerance wise to the PP.

DA works fine with the original hammer. With the hammer down, slide off, trigger re-set, there is about 1/32" the hammer can be pressed forward until it engages the hammer block. When the hammer is down and not manually pressed forward it does not touch the hammer block.

The hammer and hammer strut seem to move smoothly.

What I have observed is the hammer is sometimes caught rearward, appearing cocked after firing but releasing the trigger just a bit allows the hammer to fall. I am still puzzles at what could cause that. I can not duplicate it manually. M1911

Last edited by 1917-1911M; 04-25-2014 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 04-25-2014, 10:00 PM   #115
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This thread sounds like a typical M1911 home trigger job followed by trying to fit new parts without proper tools, fitting jigs, or training. Maybe the previous owner was trying to lighten the trigger by filing parts out of spec and passed his problem on to you. The badly filed hammer looks more like ruined part from a trigger job than anything done by a police armorer. In any case I'd quit playing with it and get it fixed by a professional. Then ask what the problem was after it's all better...
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Old 04-26-2014, 02:08 AM   #116
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'17, not sure if this might help any or not, but here's a few pictures of the cocking system of my PP, which should appear quite similar to yours.







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Old 04-26-2014, 03:19 PM   #117
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Thanks Pilotsteve. I don't see anything different. The angles all look the same.

So, can you hold one of these pistols too firm and make it malfunction. The Last time out I fired 120 rounds and #99 had the hammer follow the slide. Today I took the pistol out again after another inspection and cleaning and fired 54 rounds. I let off on the grip a bit and used the tip of my finger and fired 54 rounds without incident...Rem and Sellior. Then disaster struck....I ran out of ammo. Had plenty of .380 but I couldn't make it fit. The new Interarms PPK/S ran fine, btw.

So, I don't know what to think. The pistol seems to be running fine. Perhpaps putting in the new hammer that didn't fit quite properly fixed it. I even let my grip get just a little sloppy and it still worked fine. Perhaps the Germans have wimpy wrists and the pistol runs better that way. I'm still going to get the Mike McClellan inspection and whatever adjustment he sees that could be made better. In the mean time...I'm wondering about reloading .32 brass. Will have to dig into that. What ever Mike comes up with I will pass along. M1911



Two hand grip, resting weak hand on top of a piece of cedar. 21'. Looks like I am moving around a bit. Will set it up in something steady one day and see if it will do better.
Five round groups except for bottom, left center. 4 there. Might shoot straighter once I start looking at the sights instead of the hammer. I appreciate all of the help and comments. At this point I can't say what exactly is going on. Other than a new ejector spring, a new witness pin and a new hammer block plunger spring, thanks to the generosity of someone, that is all that has been changed on the pistol. No filing, no polishing..nothing but cleaning and lubing. No brick work at all. Firing the PPK was OK, about like I though. This puppy is much more fun...almost as much as a .22.

Last edited by 1917-1911M; 04-26-2014 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 05-11-2014, 04:06 PM   #118
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Magazine that came with the pistol. Matching last three digits w/serial no.

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Old 05-11-2014, 04:09 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Milspec View Post
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This thread sounds like a typical M1911 home trigger job followed by trying to fit new parts without proper tools, fitting jigs, or training. Maybe the previous owner was trying to lighten the trigger by filing parts out of spec and passed his problem on to you. The badly filed hammer looks more like ruined part from a trigger job than anything done by a police armorer. In any case I'd quit playing with it and get it fixed by a professional. Then ask what the problem was after it's all better...
.
Nah.....MGMike stays out of those, too much for even him to tolerate. And what is wrong with a nicely polished brick. Fitting jigs??? We don't need no stinking fitting jigs...oh wait, that is on the P22... M1911
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Old 10-18-2014, 11:26 PM   #120
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Just an update. Months down the road and the pistol still fires and functions 100%. I've probably fired 500 to 600 rounds. My sister has fired it, my wife has fired it, grandson. No issues, the hammer no longer follows the slide forward. I think the cure was in the new hammer block and proper spring for that part. Now to find one in .22 . M1911
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