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Old 07-10-2012, 06:15 PM   #21
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autonut .22
Bill.....somebody may have went into it to install a stronger hammer spring. Maybe they had some FTF (Fire) issues and were looking to correct that. How does it cock-by-thumb?

If the trigger is so hard that it almost takes two hands....sooner-or-later something will bend or break. Since the SA pull seems good....that likely has not happened yet. Looks like some exploratory surgery may be in order. I can tell you that I have the PPK/S in all three calibers and the TPH is (to me) not that far off the norm of my PPK's.
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:21 AM   #22
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coastie70 .22
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Thanks. I have PP's in all 3 calibers and this is very different. It is very difficult to cock the hammer by hand. I plan to go to the range and see if it cycles with CCI's. Interestingly prior owner had Earl replace hammer spring, strut and mag release last year for a very healthy price!! I think I may send to M&M to fix. It's a beautiful gun, but I need to be able to use DA.
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Old 07-11-2012, 07:04 AM   #23
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BINGO.....we hit the nail right on the head. There is simply no reason why these little guns won't cycle with even bulk ammo without having to install a Godzilla hammer spring. Gunsmiths tend to (sometimes) go overboard fixing Failure To Fire issues. They don't want the gun to "come back".
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:00 PM   #24
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I just spoke to Mike McClelland at M&M. I am going to send it to him, if Earl won't fix it.
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:43 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coastie70 View Post
I just spoke to Mike McClelland at M&M. I am going to send it to him, if Earl won't fix it.
His name is McClellan. And he has fixed more TPHs than Earl has ever seen.

However, it should be understood that the TPH was a problem child from the get-go for both Walther and Interarms. Basically there is a conflict between DA trigger pull and reliability: Nice DA pull = high probability of misfires, a problem that Walther/Ulm lacked enough incentive to solve (the biggest market had just forbidden their importation). It's not clear that any amount of development could have cured the problem in mass-production, as too much hand-fitting and fortuitous convergence of manufacturing tolerances was necessary to make the gun acceptable in DA and reliable in SA.

McClellan probably can improve it considerably from its present condition. But don't expect too much. It's inherent in the design. It's simply too small, and the hammer doesn't have enough mass, to give excellent performance in both DA and SA. The late Roy Melcher, a former Ruger designer and Interarms troubleshooter who investigated the TPH problems at great length and grew very frustrated with Walther's evasive answers to his inquiries, once commented that Ulm itself regarded the gun as a toy, not a serious firearm.

My own solution, in both German and American models, was to forget about DA, and tune the gun for SA, cocking the hammer manually for the first shot.

M

Last edited by MGMike; 07-11-2012 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:31 PM   #26
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Another essay; sorry about that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfonzo View Post
I believe all european built TPH pistols were all manufactured
by Walther in Ulm Germany. I do not believe Manhurin made
any TPH pistols.

All Interarms TPH pistols imported from Walther in Germany were
imported only for Military and Law Enforcement. Commercial sales
to U.S. citizens were forbidden due to the 1968 Gun Control Act
which forbid importation of small pistols like the TPH.

However, they could be manufactured in the U.S. with no restrictions
and as we know they were by U.S. manufacture,Ranger Manufacturing, for Walther.

After the introduction of the U.S. built TPH, Interams still had several
German TPH pistols in .22 LR in stock that could be only sold to Law
Enforcement Agencies, no longer could individual police officers purchase
these pistols. So, few sales were made.

Interarms requested from the ATF a one time exemption to allow these
German built TPH pistols in .22 LR to be sold on the civilian marked and
ATF did grant that request and perhaps several hundred were released
to distributors.

I carry my German TPH pistol in .22 lr nearly all the time for nearly
25 years and It shoots nearly everything I put in it.

I also have a stainless TPH made by Ranger Arms which is more
ammo sensitive and because it is heavier I seldom carry it.

Hope this info helps..
A few minor clarifications to Alfonzo's excellent post:

Since the effective date of the Gun Control Act of 1968 was in October of that year, and the TPH had been introduced somewhat earlier, a small quantity of TPH were imported earlier and found their way into the commercial market. Nor were sales to private individuals forbidden thereafter, only the importation. Importation continued for law enforcement, but I do not believe there was any official importation for, or use by, the military. In those days an individual LEO could buy the gun directly from the importer on the strength of an authorization letter from his chief, and many were imported and sold on that basis. The guns had to be kept in a bonded warehouse until the order arrived, but otherwise business proceeded as before.

Since the restriction applied only to importation, nothing prevented the individual LEO from thereafter selling the gun on the open market, the scarcity of TPHs providing an instant and considerable profit. A considerable number of TPH pistols found their way into ordinary commercial channels by this route.

Eventually, as with all good things that are within the letter but not the spirit of the law, this led to a celebrated prosecution in Pennsylvania in which the majesty, power and indignation of the federal government prevailed. Consequently there was a tightening-up of the conditions attached to import licenses so that TPHs imported thereafter could be sold only to departments, not individual LEOs. By then, however, that spotted pony was long gone from the barn.

The story of Interarms' requested "one-time exemption" has been repeated several times on the internet, but as far as I can ascertain it has no foundation in fact.

As Alfonzo states, one significant difference between the German and American TPH pistols is the weight. All USA-made pistols had steel frames which definitely discourage shirt-pocket carry. Another difference is that among the USA-made pistols it is difficult to find two that are made exactly the same. Many of them don't work, and... might not ever.

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Old 07-11-2012, 10:34 PM   #27
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What a fantastic set of thoughts shared here. Here's my glass of dark German beer being raised to the hopes that once Walther re-established itself in America they'll reconsider manufacturing these little gems again. They really had a good thing going with that near-perfect carry pistol.

What's this? Sorry guys... gotta go. Santa Claus is at the door.

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Old 07-11-2012, 11:06 PM   #28
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MGMike,

so I can assume the court decision you mention must have happened after 1976 since that is the date stamped on my gun and therefore mine might have come from one of those enterprising LEOs?

Thanks again to all responders for an outstanding knowledge exchange!
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:07 AM   #29
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Bill....if you get that gun to M&M....I have no doubt they will fix it. When they do....you will love it.

I did a lot of research before I purchased one and was extremely lucky to get one at a real bargain....and one that worked right out of the box. Some posters will get on a forum for the sole purpose of running-down a gun and some won't for fear of being bashed from that brand of gun-lover. So....we really don't know how many worked and how many didn't. I will take Mike's word for it that it may have been (and could be now) a hit-or-miss proposition. I can tell you that myself, as well as several others here on the forum, have TPH's that work. Mine has experienced two failures to fire. One was a bulk round that was the normal dud you will find in a box of 525 of those things and the other was an old round that I picked-up off the ground which had already turned brown with age.

I have no doubt they will fix it and you will be thrilled.

Last edited by autonut; 07-12-2012 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:12 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoGeezer View Post
MGMike,

so I can assume the court decision you mention must have happened after 1976 since that is the date stamped on my gun and therefore mine might have come from one of those enterprising LEOs?

Thanks again to all responders for an outstanding knowledge exchange!
The criminal case I referred to happened, to the best of my recollection, in the late 'eighties. But I don't think one can safely make any assumptions about how a particular German-made TPH found its way into private hands.

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