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Old 11-05-2016, 09:58 PM   #11
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JcGilmour .22
All good points Mike and thanks.

In further study of this (I am determined) I have taken a few pictures of the sear/hammer interaction or geometry and made them available here: Index of /walther Please have a look at the three pictures and give me your thoughts. I have drawn lines on the pics to more clearly show the mechanical interaction.

I claimed before that a heaver sear or hammer block spring would correct this problem and while I believe a stronger spring would improve things, it would be a band-aide.

Waiting for comments but what I see in the pictures is that the sear and the hammer surfaces interact at more than 90 deg. in my gun. This, to me says that if the hammer is pushed hard enough, it will slip. The angle between the two needs to be 90 deg or less in order to guarantee stability. I am trying to get up the courage to take a needle file to the sear, cutting the critical edge slightly deeper and more orthogonal.

John
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Old 11-06-2016, 09:30 AM   #12
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JcGilmour .22
Forgot

To answer your previous questions regarding the hammer and action:

The hammer is the bat ear type as shown in the manual pictures for the Sport.
The action is single only.

John
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Old 11-06-2016, 09:49 AM   #13
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MGMike .38
Quote:
Originally Posted by JcGilmour View Post
...I am trying to get up the courage to take a needle file to the sear, cutting the critical edge slightly deeper and more orthogonal.
You are not going to fix it that way. It's Gunsmith Time.

M

P.S. I don't see the hammer block in those pictures. Did you remove it?

Last edited by MGMike; 11-06-2016 at 12:10 PM. Reason: verb needed
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Old 11-07-2016, 08:21 AM   #14
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JcGilmour .22
Hammer Block

Hammer block = Walther's term "Hammer locking piece" #30 in the manual.

Yes, it is removed in these pictures.

I don't know whether to have this gun repaired or simply hang it on the wall as reminder to me to never buy private used. Maybe I will put it on the market as needing a sear and hammer and purchase something else for target practice.

Maybe I am not being realistic but I bought two Takarev TT-33's at $199 each (dealer) and both work flawlessly and shoot well. More than 500 rounds and no screw ups.
I decide to purchase one of the new offshore cheap 22's for low cost practice and got feedback from long time gun owners that are totally against the new low cost names stating that I should buy a historic quality name. So if I put say another $300 into this $500 gun maybe I will have the gun I thought I was getting; Maybe I will have a gun that in a few thousand rounds down the road needs another few hundred bucks put into it.

I have found with electronic technology that it is far better to purchase middle of the road products at low cost and replace them every few years than it is to by hi-end and find out it is obsolete in a few years but because you have a load of cash into it, you just can't bring yourself to scrap it.
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Old 12-11-2016, 12:22 PM   #15
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JcGilmour .22
Walther PP Sport L Fixed!

I just wanted to follow up with my hammer following slide problem.

I ordered a new sear (hammer blocking piece) and two new rivets from MMGunsmith.com (Mike). I had to make up a simple tool to take the load of pushing the rivets into the sear. If anyone wants info re this 10min. tool, I will post a pic.

The Sport works perfectly! I have run more than 100 rounds through it since repair and no problems. I am so happy I could pee lol. Thanks to all for the help and advice with this problem and to Mike at MMGunsmith for his advice and new parts @ a fair price.

What I have learned going through this process is that replacing the sear on a Walther PP series handgun is not a big deal or mystery and in my opinion, when the hammer starts following the slide, it is time for a new one (sear). I started out this journey, thinking that my sear was unworn. Now that I have held a new one in my hands, it looks to me that my old sear had been modified (filed) in an attempt to correct a worn out part. This obliterated any wear marks and thus the surface was uniform but wrong.

I also purchased a new hammer from Mike but decided to use my original as it has the fox-ear and as Mike advised, the new one wold not. A close comparison of the two hammers mounted on the same shaft, could resolve no differences in dimensions. All the wear was on the sear side.
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Old 12-11-2016, 01:54 PM   #16
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MGMike .38
Quote:
Originally Posted by JcGilmour View Post
...

What I have learned going through this process is that replacing the sear on a Walther PP series handgun is not a big deal or mystery and in my opinion, when the hammer starts following the slide, it is time for a new one (sear). ...
While that proved to be true in this instance, it is not typical. Your sear apparently had been filed. Most kitchen-table "gunsmiths" attack the hammer first because it is easier to remove and molest. If one examines 100 used hammers, considerable variation will be found in the length and shape of the hammer toe; this is the result of individual fitting, because of minor differences in the precise location of the pivot holes in the frame.

While it is not a big deal or a mystery to replace the sear, you were fortunate to receive some excellent instruction from Mike McClellan at M&M. The process is not intuitive, and it's easy to get it wrong, or to cause permanent damage. In particular, the frame MUST be properly supported, and the rivets must be upset into the sear, not into the frame.

M
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Old 12-12-2016, 08:41 AM   #17
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JcGilmour .22
For me, a guy with considerable mechanical experience, "rivet" was a misnomer. These are not rivet's they are simply machined pins with a slight interference fit in the sear. Rivet implies a fastener held in place by deforming the fastener.
In my opinion Mr Walther could have improved his design by threading the sear and the pins so they could be easilly removed and reinstalled for maintenance. The tips could of had the treads machined off leaving the same bearing surface in the frame.
As far as pushing the pins into the sear goes, if it is not obvious that one needs to support each side of the frame as each pin is pushed, one shouldn't be engaged in the operation. Replacing the pins with the sear is a given. I am happy my Sport now performs. I hope that after many thousands of rounds it continues to so.
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