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Old 06-17-2011, 11:52 AM   #21
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gene 1 .22
IPSC,,, WE all love you still, but I guess I for one am not to interested in footnotes. I can except what Mike says pretty much all the time. He seems to have more experience than any of us . If I wanted to know I guess like you I would ask where that info came from.

Jockey,, I am 80 and have had 2 hip replacements and a 4 way bypass 20 years ago and I have had alot of fun all my life but the last 20 years have been the best of all .I guess because I retired and was able to do the important things in life like play full time.Gun collecting was nice back in the 1950's & 1960's when I had the money and they were cheap.( $90 for a nice 1860 colt , & $200 for a mint 1851 & $35 to $ 45 for a prewar ppk ,but they are all gone darnit. resume complete.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:16 PM   #22
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IPSC .22
Again...at the risk of overly-repeating this....I'm not asking for footnotes all the time....nor even footnotes altogether, maybe simply asking that sometimes Mike may start out by saying... "As stated in..." before he starts his sentence. Or even, "While I was there after the war, I saw...", or somesuch, that gives a bit of background. Or maybe , "talking to my contacts at the factory, I found out that....". Something like this. Maybe only say this on occasion. Not always.

I think it is a valid question asking someone's credentials when historical facts are presented. Another example....one published source says Manurhin built all the Walther pistols until 1960-61, when it abruptly ended....some others say it was more of a "gradual" phase out that went on thru the later 60's . Some others say that although Manurhin was really out of the picture late in the game, they still did "fill-in" orders or supplied the Ulm plant with parts, right thru the 80's. Which is it? And then the question...why is one story correct and the others not?

To ground this question....in this example I would like to then ask, was Mike in Germany at the time of the story line he talks about?....or...did he have close factory contacts that support whatever *other* historical story he provides?...etc, etc? Basically asking, why is his decription of history more compelling than what some other gun authors have written? Could his version just be "another variation" of history?.....or is it the defintive correction we're looking for? How do you know? I think it is a fair question without getting people's knickers all twisted.

Unfortunately, asking a question like this on a public forum does not give the responder a chance to look-into-my-eyes while I'm asking this....nor can he sense the word inflection I'm using. If he was sitting at a table in front of me....he'd understand I have no axe to grind nor do I automatically assume he's wrong. Let's get that point straight right now. I'm not saying he's wrong. I simply want a better understanding of the basis of his assertions. Having searcher451 simply say..."Id take Mike's word over anyone's " is nice......but that doesn't really address the issue.

Last edited by IPSC; 06-17-2011 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:43 PM   #23
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IPSC,,, WE all love you still, but I guess I for one am not to interested in footnotes. I can except what Mike says pretty much all the time. He seems to have more experience than any of us . If I wanted to know I guess like you I would ask where that info came from.

Jockey,, I am 80 and have had 2 hip replacements and a 4 way bypass 20 years ago and I have had alot of fun all my life but the last 20 years have been the best of all .I guess because I retired and was able to do the important things in life like play full time.Gun collecting was nice back in the 1950's & 1960's when I had the money and they were cheap.( $90 for a nice 1860 colt , & $200 for a mint 1851 & $35 to $ 45 for a prewar ppk ,but they are all gone darnit. resume complete.
Good for you Gene! I'm 20 years behind you and your comments give me hope that God willing my next 20 will be as good as yours! My "collecting" began late so I've not enjoyed the time when costs were more "reasonable" making owning guns purchased back then really big assets today. I'll just enjoy owning, fondling, and shooting what I have and not worry about the investment part for now.
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Old 06-17-2011, 01:44 PM   #24
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IPSC: Just so we are clear, and then I am leaving this thread because it has reached the point of diminishing returns:

I did NOT interpret your posts as an attack on me, or on the accuracy of my statements, or as a request that "everything" be footnoted. I do understand that, even if others might have missed your point. But I do think you are asking for a level of reassurance and "truth" that I am not willing to give you.

My reason is simple: I have no interest in becoming the Settlor of Disputes, or the Resident Guru, or the Giver of Truth on this forum.

I am here mainly to enjoy myself. Also to help others if I can, and once in a while provide information I believe to be correct on matters that are not easily looked up in one of the standard references. I am not trying to gather "followers" as you call them (or acolytes or disciples, either), but that's what inevitably happens if one starts acting too much like an authority. I have seen this turn into a long-running ego trip for some on other forums, and the forum gets ingrown, stagnant and insufferable. For that reason I almost never respond to questions that can be answered by anyone who has Dieter Marschall's excellent book (most here do); I don't put my credentials on parade; and I generally don't explain why I believe my information is substantially correct. If I am not sure about a fact, I usually qualify it in some fashion.

That is as far as I intend to go. If it results in my version of some event being just another of four or five contradictory accounts, I'm not troubled by it. You'll just have to disregard it completely, or live with the uncertainty.

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Old 06-17-2011, 01:51 PM   #25
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Gene1: At 80 you've got me beat by a comfortable margin.

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Old 06-17-2011, 06:19 PM   #26
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Hey Jockey,I'm looking forward to my next 20 too. Every time I go down to get my carry permit renewed I ask how much longer can I get it? She says as long as I've got my $90. Even tho I'm close to bionic,I stay in real good health.

IPSC,, I am a bug on detail too, but didn't you say you were an engineer? I guess thats why you like all the details. My best friend was an engineer and spent 2 years out in Nevada working on the engines for the Blackbird.

Jockey I sold my civil war collection 40 years ago & have regretted it ever since. The only one of my ppk's I kept was the 1962 22 , but my brother had it for 20 years & let the slide rust so I had it reblued. It still shoots perfectly & has all the original springs. The older guns are a lot smoother but I am enjoying my S&W ppk 32.
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Old 06-17-2011, 06:26 PM   #27
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gene 1 .22
Hey mike ,don't quit this thread you give it spark. I still have some questions on repairs on my ppk's I have to ask you. I'm a 2 fingered typer so I'm very slow . I haven't done it in close to 60 years until I got on this forum.
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Old 06-17-2011, 06:41 PM   #28
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LOL!! Good one Gene!
On my last renewal I asked the gal at the sheriffs office "at what point do I change my hair color description from brown to grey?" with a wink she said, "sorry sir but it's definitely grey....but put down what you want." BROWN!

I recently sold a fine S&W revolver to help fund my Walther fever, so I understand the remorse factor!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gene 1 View Post
Hey Jockey,I'm looking forward to my next 20 too. Every time I go down to get my carry permit renewed I ask how much longer can I get it? She says as long as I've got my $90. Even tho I'm close to bionic,I stay in real good health.

IPSC,, I am a bug on detail too, but didn't you say you were an engineer? I guess thats why you like all the details. My best friend was an engineer and spent 2 years out in Nevada working on the engines for the Blackbird.

Jockey I sold my civil war collection 40 years ago & have regretted it ever since. The only one of my ppk's I kept was the 1962 22 , but my brother had it for 20 years & let the slide rust so I had it reblued. It still shoots perfectly & has all the original springs. The older guns are a lot smoother but I am enjoying my S&W ppk 32.
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Old 06-17-2011, 10:52 PM   #29
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Great Information!

For the sake of my limited understanding, what year did Walther start distributing PP series pistols with the "Ulm/Donau" slide markings?

Thanks and no citations required!
I guess I got into this thread too late................
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Old 06-18-2011, 08:27 AM   #30
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IPSC .22
@gene1....yes. I mentioned I am an engineer in other threads and that could be the reason for my drive toward crushing ambiguity. I am a knowledge junkie of all kinds,....both in my professional life and for my hobby interests, including history. If it matters to anyone regarding this thread exchange.... I harbor no ill-will on MikeMG nor am I trying to cast doubt as to what he says. I was asking for some sort of backup verification. Mike and I have since exchanged PM's and we're good.....

.....so we can all now sing "Kum-bye-yah" around the campfire !!....

Last edited by IPSC; 06-18-2011 at 08:30 AM.
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