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Old 02-19-2012, 12:39 PM   #1
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Broken fire control assembly

I took my P99 (1st gen) to the range this morning and after about 20 rounds experienced a failure to fire. Trigger would retract but striker would not fire.

Eventually stripped it and found that a piece of the polymer fire control assembly block had cracked off and the trigger bar guide rod had fallen out. Without the trigger bar guide in place the pistol is essentially rendered inoperative.



Q1: does the trigger bar guide form part of the fire control assembly block? (It seems to but my aging eyes are struggling to make out what's part of the frame and what's part of the block )

Q2: can the fire control assembly block be replaced or is it formed as part of the polymer frame?

If no to the above then I presume the entire frame will have to be replaced?

For the record I shoot 122gr SWC lead in IDPA matches, the loads are carefully constructed and chronographed to just make power factor, so no, I'm not blasting away with +P+ loads. The pistol has had about 3,600 rounds through it.

cheers
andy
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Old 02-19-2012, 09:41 PM   #2
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The fire control assembly can be replaced. I had to have mine replaced on my pistol several years ago.
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:41 AM   #3
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Slowhand99 .22
I'll wait to see your update rather than commenting after our phone conversation. But just for the benefit of others, this also happened to me, and I"ve commented on another thread about it in more detail. Thanks for doing the research.... the photos are good, mine broke in precisely the same spot.
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:11 AM   #4
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OK so my take on this is that it's one amazing co-incidence that two virtually identical firearms (a 9mm and a .40, both gen.1) bought round about the same time experience an identical failure. my best guess is that the recoil spring starts to weaken, allowing the slide to start hammering the frame harder and harder, and then eventually something snaps. ( http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ght=P99+recoil )

This is most unfortunate as this is my self defence firearm, and after this experience my confidence in the weapon is severely shaken. Nowhere in the manual does it state how often parts may wear and when they should be replaced. Hopefully my gunsmith can source a replacement fire control assembly but this may be a problem as the Walther agents in South Africa changed recently with all the bad service that implies, and shipping any firearm parts to South Africa from the US or direct from Walther is extremely problematic due to US ITAR and German export regulations.

:-(

Last edited by IdleLayabout; 02-20-2012 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:45 PM   #5
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I'm sorry to hear that IdleLayabout and Slowhand99; I've read your posts in this thread as well as the "Has anyone had to replace parts..." thread. I don't believe this a common occurrence, but I understand it is not an inspiring one.

I inspected my first generation P99 earlier this morning, and found a significant amount of plastic fore of the pin. I would be surprised if it broke off suddenly. I'll post a picture if anyone wants to compare.

I wish you luck in repairing your firearms.
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:04 PM   #6
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I would say this is not only common, but expected. If you look at my attached photo the frames are, from left to right, Gen 1 P99, Gen 3 P99, PPQ. Notice the fire control assembly. The Gen 3 and PPQ are angled on the outside edge. The Gen 1 is square, and as you will notice, there is a small crack on the outside of the pin and the forward portion is slightly bent inward. This appears to be a stress area on the Gen 1 models which required Walther to do a very slight redesign.
Notice also the wear mark at the rear of the block next to the back of the spring indicating where the extractor retention pin stops when the slide is blown back. On the Gen 3 and PPQ there are indentations for the extractor retention pin to rest (see more info in the post below).

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Old 02-22-2012, 09:11 PM   #7
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The extractor retention pin (seen in the images to the left of the barrel chamber...and forgive me if I called it the wrong name) is impacting the block and then rides up on top of it for almost 3/4" every time the gun fires. This pin is on a spring. You should be able to press it into the frame effortlessly. If it gets very dirty or is not lubricated (through the hole on the top of the slide) and becomes siezed, it will impact that portion of the block without giving as it should. The crack was present on mine when I bought it (used) but I am very careful to keep my firearms clean and lubed. It hasn't gotten any worse in the five years I have owned and shot it.

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Old 02-22-2012, 11:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Man View Post
I would say this is not only common, but expected. If you look at my attached photo the frames are, from left to right, Gen 1 P99, Gen 3 P99, PPQ. Notice the fire control assembly. The Gen 3 and PPQ are angled on the outside edge. The Gen 1 is square, and as you will notice, there is a small crack on the outside of the pin and the forward portion is slightly bent inward. This appears to be a stress area on the Gen 1 models which required Walther to do a very slight redesign.
Iron Man, I appreciate the correction; information such as this is precisely why I visit this forum. After your first post I disassembled my P99 to understand the function first hand, and concluded I should provide a little lubrication to the contact area in addition to inspection ever so often.

I now wonder of the interchangeability of fire control assemblies between the generations. I currently would presume it possible?


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Old 02-23-2012, 01:12 AM   #9
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IdleLayabout .22
Hi guys, thanks for the constructive feedback. Ironman, the pics are very informative. Note also on the right hand Gen 3 that the trigger bar guide is completely redesigned. Instead of a pin it's now an arm resting against the frame underneath the fire control unit (also called the sear housing). Not sure about the centre Gen 3, I can see a pin and also what looks like an arm.

In the newer diagrams the trigger bar guide (part 17) is now absent and the new part 32.8 called an adjustable trigger bar guide has taken its place. On the DAO model it's called the disconnecter. Diagrams here courtesy of Jonm61: https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/f...arts-list.html

Slowhand's gun is now repaired, I'm hoping to have a new sear housing within 24 hours. We're also both getting new recoil springs. Additionally I'm considering buying yet another sear housing and recoil spring to keep on hand for future replacement. I'll report back on the repair.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:00 PM   #10
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So, would it help to slightly round or bevel the edges of that portion of the Gen 1 Fire Control Assembly so it resembles the Gen 2?
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