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Old 08-26-2017, 12:31 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by MichaelS. View Post
You have made the allegation that the Creed is manufactured at the Umarex facility multiple times, with zero supporting evidence. Walther reps I have spoken to refute this accusation, and it is marked with Ulm proofs.
With the purchase of Walther by Umarex, pre-Creed development, the debate rages on (TFB for one), as to what extent Umarex produced parts/assemblies are used in the Creed.

Even removing the Umarex parts debate from the discussion, the Creed was designed/built to a lower price point. While under the control/oversight of Umarex.

Better?

FWIW, the Ulm proofing ONLY verifies the unit fires in an acceptable manner, and the parts can withstand 150% load pressures. This proofing in NO WAY verifies durability from heavy usage (that is only verified when the units get extensive usage in the hands of owners).

Last edited by DeutschlandUberAlles; 08-26-2017 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 08-26-2017, 01:16 PM   #12
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DeutschlandUberAlles .22
Need Walthers verification?

Quote from Guns America reviewer who spoke with Walther reps at Ft Smith (at Creed release)......

"My first view of the Creed was a few months ago at the Walther HQ in Fort Smith. I was impressed while looking at the pre-production sample, and was shocked to hear the suggested retail of $399.00! I even asked if they were concerned by the price/value relationship with their other guns. They assured me that they would be fine.".

Translation, in comparing the Creed to more expensive Walthers, the purchaser is getting what they pay for. Less $s = less gun.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/wal...d-full-review/

And "Made in Germany", only verifies final assembly location, not origin of parts.

Hell, Umarex/Walther even chose to "blow up" their OWN facebook release of the Creed. Makes you wonder what info got released that needed to be covered up. Remember this......
https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/c...ed-thread.html

Umarex even went to the extent of having reviews of early production models removed, The Truth About Guns review comes to mind (the Nov '15 review was NOT the first one, the first one VANISHED).

The info is out there, sad I need to do the "legwork" for those who won't.

Last edited by DeutschlandUberAlles; 08-26-2017 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 08-26-2017, 06:32 PM   #13
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sunny08 .22
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I read that the feed ramps should move slightly to enhance reliability. It was in an article in shotgun news about the creed.
So why don't all the guns have movement? I own two PPX's, feed ramps are solid. Same with the creed. Maybe I should complain because my feed ramps don't move.
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Old 08-26-2017, 07:48 PM   #14
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muckaleewarrior71 .22
I never had an issue with feed ramps on either of my PPXs in 9mm or .40 going back to 2013 and few thousand rounds fired. Maybe some had issues but not mine. Those babies fire every bit as accurate as my PPQ, P99 or P99c. They're just not compact enough for iwb carry.
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:06 PM   #15
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sunny08 .22
^^^^ Yup. I shoot a very basic competition with my PPX 9. No hiccups or problems. And no loose feed ramp. Give or take, approx. 3500 rounds. Seems like it works better the more I shoot it.
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Old 08-27-2017, 01:31 AM   #16
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MichaelS. .22
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Originally Posted by DeutschlandUberAlles View Post

The info is out there, sad I need to do the "legwork" for those who won't.
This is not confirmation via facts, but your disjointed conjecture. I believe that I will go with the information provided by the official Walther representatives.

What is sad is that you seem to be a chronic curmudgeon, disagreeable in attitude, and a compulsive detractor of the Creed for some ungodly reason. To keep the peace on the forum, yet spare myself the torture, I'll utilize the ignore feature.

Flame away.
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Old 08-27-2017, 08:09 AM   #17
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DeutschlandUberAlles .22
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelS. View Post
This is not confirmation via facts, but your disjointed conjecture. I believe that I will go with the information provided by the official Walther representatives.

What is sad is that you seem to be a chronic curmudgeon, disagreeable in attitude, and a compulsive detractor of the Creed for some ungodly reason. To keep the peace on the forum, yet spare myself the torture, I'll utilize the ignore feature.

Flame away.
Agree with you on lack of fact. With exception of Walther reps statement on cost/value of Creed not effecting more expensive products in line.

I personally followed the Creed release (was considering pre PPQ purchase). The Umarex/Walther release info "reset/wipe", followed by removal of online review videos showed me (and others) something was up. Hardly disjointed conjecture, this is a TEXTBOOK/CLASSIC DDM (data driven marketing) move when info is released that has a negative effect on sales (the release went sideways). Where there's smoke, there's fire.

FWIW, you may want to address the issue of only SOME owners having loose feed ramps. Hardly sounds like a design feature when only some have it.

Last edited by DeutschlandUberAlles; 08-27-2017 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 08-27-2017, 08:51 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelS. View Post
...

What is sad is that you seem to be a chronic curmudgeon, disagreeable in attitude, and a compulsive detractor of the Creed for some ungodly reason. ...
Whew, for a moment there, I thought you were describing me.

If the "official Walter representatives" expect to be taken seriously, they ought to start offering explanations that make sense.

Better hit the "Ignore" button twice.

M
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Old 08-27-2017, 12:00 PM   #19
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DeutschlandUberAlles .22
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Whew, for a moment there, I thought you were describing me.

If the "official Walter representatives" expect to be taken seriously, they ought to start offering explanations that make sense.

Better hit the "Ignore" button twice.

M
Basic business model keeps the Walther reps from shooting straight.

Data driven marketing dept (Umarex) keeps Walther "old guard" reps from going off reservation/script.

Saw this same issue with BMW M cars, numerous owners saw major oil consumption, BMW deemed 1 Qt every 3k miles was "normal". The E39 M5 & E46 M3 I owned (purchased new, broken in right) consumed NO oil, even at track days (I guess my cars were defective).

It's all about the Benjamins.

Last edited by DeutschlandUberAlles; 08-27-2017 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 08-27-2017, 06:48 PM   #20
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Pondoro .22
If all the feed ramps on all the PPX's were loose I could believe it was a purposeful design feature. But only some are loose. In the early days Walther had a schizophrenic response - some people who complained were told to send the pistol in for repairs, others were told that the loose ramp is no problem. So I don't believe it was purposely designed as an aid to feeding.

That said my PPX with a loose feed ramp just keeps firing and has not ever jammed. I take perverse pleasure in this. It is not a self defense gun it is a fun steel target gun. The fact that the Creed uses the same barrel means that I can buy a new barrel "someday", or get one free if it breaks in two and Walther considers that their fault. I'll keep shooting...
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