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Old 07-06-2017, 12:16 AM   #31
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Pinger9x19 .22
I myself don't understand this entry level saying that gets thrown around. If you never owned a 9 mm pistol & go out & purchase a Glock, this is to you a entry level pistol, it's your first. To me any firearm that you purchase that is your first in that caliber & type of firearm is a entry lever firearm. Like I here it get thrown around on AK's, entry level, well if I got a Veper, it's my first AK ever then to me it would be my entry level AK into the AK world of rifles. Just my 2 cents on this.
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Old 07-06-2017, 09:06 AM   #32
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I have handled and dry fired a Creed and it seems to be exactly what it is: a PPX with a little plastic surgery to make it prettier (or less homely).

Neither the Creed nor the PPX will ever compare favorably to the PPQ in terms of how it feels to handle or shoot it. However, to me the proof is in the pudding. While it's easy for me to shoot a PPQ well, the PPX is on the same level in my hands. It doesn't feel as good while I'm doing and its inherent accuracy may not be as good, but I can put the bullets where I want them to go without a lot of extra effort (like I have to do with Glocks).

The PPX is a good shooter, which is what counts for me. Assuming (and this is a big if), the Creed should be about the same in terms of performance. Barring any safety or reliability issues that may appear over time, it should be an excellent value.
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Old 07-07-2017, 12:14 AM   #33
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Check out my 1st range visit post. I put 395 round of various ammo the other day will keep a detailed log on what ammo used climate conditions etc.
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Old 07-07-2017, 09:10 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinger9x19 View Post
I myself don't understand this entry level saying that gets thrown around. If you never owned a 9 mm pistol & go out & purchase a Glock, this is to you a entry level pistol, it's your first.....
A good point.

What you say is literally true as applied to the buyer. He can "enter" the activity of shooting at whatever level he wants and can afford.

As applied to the gun, the term describes a pistol that is primarily designed and manufactured to be sold at a price attractive to a first-time buyer who does not wish to spend a lot of money. It should not be expected to be the equal of a pistol designed and manufactured foremost to meet certain standards of performance or durability, with the price resulting accordingly.

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Old 07-07-2017, 10:46 AM   #35
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The "entry level" definition has nothing to do with what an individual chooses as a "first purchased" in a caliber or platform.

It defines an item designed/produced/contented to a lower price point (without falling to a level of quality Walther deems unacceptable in the case of the Creed). In this case, built for those who see the $650 MSRP of the PPQ as "too much".

I ran a Creed on the range prior to PPQ purchase (trigger is not up to par, and 2 FTF of FMJ ball makes it a range toy for me, not a defense tool), gladly paid around $250 more for the PPQ.

Last edited by DeutschlandUberAlles; 07-07-2017 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:07 AM   #36
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I had a PPQ & beside it being a striker fired pistol, with grip options. Has a nicer case. I agree with what your saying, it's just I myself cannot see with striker tech the way it is now days & the polymer pistol technology is quite easy, that these firearm manufactures will be putting out more good quality pistols, just without the extra frills you get with like said PPQ, extra back straps, nicer case, holster reloading tool, etc.. I think they are realizing that he working class man what a good reliable pistol but at that $300-$450 price range.
I know a lot of people always say save up & get the other pistol. Well in my world when you start saving that's when **** breaks down, right when you get enough money to afford that high dollar firearm you've been wanting.
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:30 AM   #37
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DeutschlandUberAlles .22
With over 30yrs of aerospace manufacturing engineering/root cause-corrective action on my resume, I can state, the unavoidable reality of building complex mechanical assemblies is, as tolerances go down, and part counts go up, manufacturing/materials/assembly costs increase (a few revisions can double production costs). Example, a stamped and formed part can cost under .05c. Now grind a critical radius and 2 surfaces, ream a hole to a .0005 tolerance, and electro-polish the part. This 5 cent part now costs over $1 to produce, these parts, side by side, would be identical to the eye, with exception to the polished finish.

The extra swag that comes with the PPQ might be increasing the cost by around $10 tops, Walther is not packaging/marketing/warehousing/distributing these items as "stand alone" products, and therefore these low cost items are not increasing the price of the PPQ significantly.

Last edited by DeutschlandUberAlles; 07-07-2017 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 07-07-2017, 02:37 PM   #38
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I once again agree completely, all I was stating that even some of the small extras do raise the cost up. I was already assuming that most of the cost is of course in the CNC machine process. I have a bit of CNC experience but not a aerospace mine was medical & heavy forklift hubs. Trust me I know how quickly a part can increase, when extras are added.
All I was really stating is I just don't like that statement "Entry Level" just the sound of it makes my ears ring. Why it makes some people kind shy about purchasing a budget pistol, thinking it's not going to last, which it will if properly taken care of, also with Walther's lifetime warranty cannot beat it. Also mags seem to be real affordable for the Creed & from what I have read it can take the PPX mags also.
To me the PPQ & the Creed are both great pistols in each there own way. At this time all I could afford is a Creed, I got lucky on my PPQ purchase, got it off a buddy for $450 dollars & it was even that old, had only about a few hundred rounds through it. If I could pick up a PPQ for that price I would have gotten it. Also I really like big duty size pistols. Miss my Ruger P95 at times also.

Last edited by Pinger9x19; 07-07-2017 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 07-07-2017, 03:43 PM   #39
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DeutschlandUberAlles .22
SD size is all I own or shoot regularly (8.5 XL hands make a DE .50ae feel good), can't feel any additional comfort/see reduced visibility when carrying SD vs compact. I can sure feel the reduced control/shoot-ability when shooting range friends compact, sub-compact, micro, mini, nano......, and sub 6" site rads on defense guns are not worth carrying IMHO (some of these small ones have sites that are like threading a needle).

The PPQ was the first poly/striker I shot that had me opening my wallet for, and I've been shooting friends collections for over 30 yrs. These always felt sub-par when compared to metal DA/SA top shelf hardware, until the PPQ.
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Last edited by DeutschlandUberAlles; 07-07-2017 at 03:53 PM.
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