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A warning to those who want to shoot WWII-vintage P.38s

56K views 132 replies 60 participants last post by  cmdrcody 
#1 ·
We get questions from time to time here from folks who buy a WWII-vintage P.38, or who are thinking of buying one, and want to use it primarily as a shooter rather than as a collector piece. As often as not, the advice is to have a qualified gunsmith check out the pistol thoroughly and then shoot it with 115-grain ammo.

But it's also wise to keep in mind that if something happens and the pistol blows up for one reason or another -- from overloaded ammo to inferior materials as the war dragged on -- then you are out the investment, at a minimum. This doesn't happen a lot, so far as we know, but it's been know to happen. For example, note this word of caution from our friends on the P.38 Forum:

P 38 & PP-PPK Collector Forum

If you blow up a P1, you can easily buy a new slide for less than $50 bucks, and it won't matter a whit; a shooter is a shooter, after all. Replacing a cracked slide or other parts on a vintage, matched WWII pistol, however, is a whole other issue.

Make your own judgments, of course, but at least be aware of the potential of what can happen to a collector pistol should something go awry.
 
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#70 ·
Stumbled on to this thread and it was a good read. The debate about 'shoot/don't shoot' brought to mind the angst over on the Colt board; somebody had a blued Python still in the wrapper with factory grease, and he was doubtful about wiping it off and even handling the damned thing. Colt's snakes are neat, but what fun would it be to have that one?
On the other hand, a buddy was loaned a P38 that he was considering buying, and he shot another buddy's warmish handloads thru' it in a test-hop. He promptly cracked the locking block, and returned the gun with a 'no thanks'.
There's a range of about 1k yards between the attitudes above.
Moon
 
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#71 ·
All I know is my P.38 comes with me to the range all the time, clad in it's Zella Mehlis Bakelite grips all the while. Many, many magazines worth of WWB pass through its alloy frame, and none are the worse or the wiser. It brings many smiles with what my buddies call "Video game accuracy", and it's fun to lay it's eighty-year old design onto the table next to all the modern gear and know it can still run with the young bucks.

-Pilotsteve
 
#72 · (Edited)
Steve you may remember Carl the PSL LEO who attended the 3rd Greet & Shoot. The first time he shot my AC44 he was flabbergasted at how well it operated and how smooth the trigger was.

Yup these old war dawgs can run with the pups if need be.

 
#77 ·
Nope...loaded and ready for the line.
 
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#78 ·
I shoot all of my pistols. If it breaks, I fix it. I am always kind of surprised that a lot of "collectors: who value original condition above all else, really have no idea whether the gun will fire or not. Was it originally non firing? It is a bit of a thrill shooting a pistol for the first time, when you have no idea the last time it was shot. Shure , I have seen pics of "blown up guns", but never really hear the reason. Seeing pictures of blown up cars doesn't persuade me to stop driving. If I believe that a particular pistol was made inferior, I don't buy it. If it is broken because of too powerful modern ammunition, it's certainly possible, and avoidable. I suspect that the gun that explodes wasn't properly inspected prior to shooting, and was already broken, or about to. If I had Hitler's gun, I'd shoot that. Think that would reduce the value? I don't. I probably wouldn't shoot a fancy engraved and gold plated pistol, because they were never intended to be shot. Other than that...Steel just doesn't deteriorate sitting in a drawer for 80 years. If I want a paperweight, I kinda prefer those pretty glass ones.
 
#81 · (Edited)
The whole point of the Hellenistic reference, to the new guys here, is simple. If you've got Helen of Troy - AKA the hottest chick ever - you'd better bed her because if you don't, eventually, someone else will. And you'll be a sad, sad sap.

Example: You acquire a never-fired Luger P.08 with gold trim; beautiful and worth $15,000 before the bidding starts. But no! Never are you going to fire it... it's value will only get better with time and it will rest in your safe... safely. After all, you might drop it, ding the bluing or nick the grips! No way... it stays in the safe until..

You lose it. Be it by sale for want of extended nursing care or liquidation of the estate, you lose it. You grow old, holding your treasures near until it's too late to enjoy them for what they are, and what they could have been to your memory. They'll be gone, unfired, because you kept them safe. The worst part? You might just wonder what the guy who bought them plans on doing... if it were me, the old man, regretting, would hear the echos of their reports in the distance, well enjoyed.

Synopsis: taste the wealth in life if given the chance, if opportune. We only have once chance at this thing called life; I believe it's prudent to make the best of the one shot we've got at it.

-Pilotsteve
 
#87 ·
I bet Priam and Hector (and the other 5000 Trojans I suppose) wish Paris had left it holstered.

Not only does it end badly in the book, but in every movie version I've ever seen, as well.

Still, a great reference.

Like MGMike said, "The face that launched a thousand ships..."

I guess it's worth asking, though, what was the basic specs for German WWII 9mm ball out of a P-38? I know they had different bullets (FMJ and sintered iron and others). Is there agreement on common specs? Not that I'm suggesting it's a good choice nowadays, mind you.

Regards,
 
#88 ·
A big problem with p 38's is the top cover. Beware if you use hot 9mm loads you risk having the top cover and all the small parts inside blowing off. Most parts are easy to find but the firing pin lock can be difficult to find for WW2 guns. I have replaced a few of them and all are the result of using hot or +p loads.
 
#101 ·
I rarely shoot my matched ac45 P38 (I've only shot maybe 50 rounds since I purchased the gun a year ago). But sometimes Helen just looks so cute I can't resist. Last time, the top strap popped off (and the rear sight smacked me in the forehead). What a naughty girl, that Helen!

Anyway, I did find the strap, sight, and firing pin/spring in the leaves by my feet (mirable dictu!). As someone (Mike?) noted, put back together properly, the strap should stay in place. But I'm the one who installed the strap when I first purchased it, as I recall it somehow popped out when first cleaning/inspecting.

My question is, is this just a reflection of my choice of ammo? (I used 124gr FMJ which seems unremarkable), or does the strap suffer from wear (looks unlikely, simple design)? I can't imagine I put it together incorrectly, but anything is possible. Any suggestions or tips on attachment?

Once re-assembled she will go back in her cradle and I'll use the P5 for my fun. But I know I'll be tempted to take her out every so often. Just like I occasionally drive my 1972 Norton Commando or my 1973 Triumph Tiger: rarely. I suppose that means I'm slightly more shooter than collector, although from this thread it's clearly a continuum, everyone to their tastes and risks. As anyone who drives vintage will tell you, you take your chances.
 
#89 ·
I shoot my P38 regularly using American Eagle 124 grain ammo. Never had a problem and I believe the gun extremely reliable. I let my wife fire it once -- she owns a CZ75 and H&K VP9, both fine pistols -- but she quickly returned it to me explaining that the P38 fired "too easily" for her. She was amazed (and impressed) with both the ease and accuracy of the weapon. Too bad Walther has not re-introduced this fine design for modern production.
 
#90 ·
Old thread. But as stated, bad things can happen. I had my turn with a wartime PP. I had it a while, shot mild cast bullet lead loads in it. Took it apart to clean it after a session at the range, noticed that a chunk of the forward edge of the frame broke off. How that happened, I don't know but close examination showed there was a bubble inside the metal in that area. Manufacturing flaw from the war, took decades to show up. The frame, of all the parts to break, nobody wants a pistol with a busted frame. Well, I did sell it for parts, that's one good thing about it. Walther parts are still valuable even if the gun is broken.
 
#92 ·
...Where is Pilot Steve when we need him?
Alright guys, you might've noticed we've decided it was best to re-open this thread because it contains a lot of useful information and the fact that like ourselves, none of our classic P.38's are getting and younger and this topic may well arise again in the future. In addition, the tangential, off-topic discussions have been removed upon securing agreements with both gentleman cordially. So we're back on topic, ja!

My P.38 is coming to the range with me this coming weekend, AND it's going to show up all those younger guys to my left with their brand-new pistols. Video forthcoming - carry on, gentlemen!

-Pilotsteve
 
#93 ·
Me bad, broke my CYQ

I should have known better, the Spreewerk produced P.38 pistols are known to have production issues but I shot it anyway....:( and the slide broke on the right side about the middle. I have another intact CYQ, and an AC. My WWII pistols will never be shot. I broke one, I'm surely not going to break another.

I bought a P1 for shooting a P.38 style pistol
 
#94 · (Edited)
I should have known better, the Spreewerk produced P.38 pistols are known to have production issues but I shot it anyway....:( and the slide broke on the right side about the middle. I have another intact CYQ, and an AC. My WWII pistols will never be shot. I broke one, I'm surely not going to break another.

I bought a P1 for shooting a P.38 style pistol
Nothing wrong with that sentiment, and I won't criticize Ingo's choice. But I shoot an ac41 and a byf42 --both original finish and highly collectible-- regularly, and shooting an aluminum-framed Ulm gun is just not the same. Ya pays yer money, and ya enjoy or suffer the consequences.

M

P.S. Spreewerk P38s and late war Radoms were Albert Speer's joke on a future generation of American collectors.
 
#95 ·
Shooting a vintage firearm

I shoot ALL of my guns. Yup, even the vintage pieces.
The first thing I look for is the proof markings. These will typically be on the chamber and/or barrel. Not all will have proof testing, many US firearms use serial number ranges I.e. 1903 Springfield.
Fortunately, Walther proofs marks their chambers.
Definitely,have a certified gunsmith check it out, but generally, if it has been proof tested at the factory it’s good.
 
#96 ·
I shoot ALL of my guns. Yup, even the vintage pieces.
The first thing I look for is the proof markings. These will typically be on the chamber and/or barrel. Not all will have proof testing, many US firearms use serial number ranges I.e. 1903 Springfield.
Fortunately, Walther proofs marks their chambers.
Definitely,have a certified gunsmith check it out, but generally, if it has been proof tested at the factory it’s good.
Wow. This ignores what could have or did happen over the intervening 70, 80, or 100 years. Plenty of early Lugers with proof marks which have been re-built 2-3 times, not re-proofed, and whose shootsbility/condition has *nothing* to do with proof marks which exist on it. Same can be said of many other firearms...

I'm not against shooting them, but I am against bad logic. Take the 70-100 year old gun to a knowledgeable (another important and oft-overlooked point) gunsmith of that type of firearm. Then you can be sure of yourself shooting it.
 
#97 ·
two sides of the coin to flip . . .
My learning have been,
To enhance a historic or highly collectibles value..... it needs to work.
( inspect, clean, load, fire IF SAFE, shoot to a target that you have 2 additional witnesses sign & date and add that target to the historic record for item, as little as 3 rds ).

Then make the decision to fire again or not. If it breaks you own it, for less !
 
#98 ·
Shooting vintage firearms

I am a professional, certified, licensed, bonded, insured and FFL gunsmith.
I am also a retired machinist with 30 years experience in aerospace and automotive industry.
I repair vintage firearms on a daily basis and many times have to make parts and have to properly heat treat them, so I do have a little knowledge.
I’ve just started collecting WWII in the last year so I’m still learning the makes and models. I love the history of the WWII weapons and look foreword to working on them.
I do agree 100% any used firearms should go to a certified gunsmith for at the very least, a good cleaning and cursory inspection.
We have many gun shows in Indiana so I’ve seen the good, bad and dangerous!
 
#105 ·
I'm voting with MGMike on incorrect assembly (even though it was me the last time). I watched a few videos where gents were popping in that cover with a firm press of the thumb. Well, I've got pretty strong thumbs, and there was no way the cover would ever "snap" into place. I crushed it down and back with my meaty paws and no love. I suspect that last time I only got it "90%" in place. So this time I took out a small tap hammer, and gave it a gentle whack, and didn't it settle down nice and tight. Pretty sure it won't go flying out again, but I'll stick with gentle loads too, just for those rare times I take it out of its case.

Thanks gents.
 
#106 ·
Decision Made

The gunsmith who sold me my P38 (manufactured by Mauser circa April 1943) has repeatedly assured me that, so long as I do not shoot +P or +P+ ammo (or some other hot load), my handgun will outlive me with proper cleaning regiment. I have studied the warnings and opinions expressed within this thread, and have concluded that my P38 is a firearm -- not historic relic -- which, if capable of being fired, should be enjoyed within my lifetime. I also note that Mauser did not begin manufacturing the P38 until late 1942; and I suspect that whatever "shortcuts" German armament made during the war did not occur so early when Mauser began production. I am 65 years old, and while I would very much like my son to inherit this historic firearm, I am not going to vault this firearm to preserve for my future generations who will most probably be saddled with the same paradox as to whether it should be preserved or used. My guess is that my descendants will most probably use, at the range, for self-defense, or at IDPA/USPSA meets some more modern handgun (making even my Walther PPQ obsolete.
 
#107 ·
Will Report Event Outcome

I have previously opined that my P-38 should be used for shooting, not acquiring dust as an historic artifact, and I intend to demonstrate this conclusion later this month at my local I.D.P.A. event in south Jersey. I intend to use this firearm shooting American Eagle 124 grain 9mm ammunition which ballistic load was that intended to be shot by the German Army. I will report as to the experience although I suspect that my P-38, containing only eight -- not ten -- rounds with magazine release at the heel of the handle, will probably not fare as well as the firearms otherwise permitted to be used by the I.D.P.A. as "Stock Service Pistol." I had been lobbying for the I.D.P.A. to create a new division -- which I had suggested be labeled as "Nostalgic Specialty Division" ("N.S.D.") to umbrella historic single stack magazine guns not otherwise limited to 45 caliber -- but that has been ignored. Nevertheless, if I could not carry my Walther PPQ-M2 5"barrel, then I certainly would carry my Walther P-38 which is, quite frankly, a great shooting gun. Will keep all advised as to developments.
 
#109 ·
Years ago I used to regularly shoot skeet with a Winchester M12 riot gun. I did not hit as many birds as the other fellows, but that gun --which was my "house" gun and on which I would stake my life in an emergency-- became VERY familiar to me.

Otherwise, a short-barreled shotgun, having no recreational or hunting use, tends to be fired rather seldom, with a resulting lack of close affinity.

M
 
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