PPS 9mm vs 40 my 2 cents..

[NRA-Life-Member]

had my 1st change to compare - hold and play with PPS in 40 and 9mm.

Both felt good. I was impressed with the THIN feeling it offers..

Both felt about the same in my hands..

Prices were about $ 20.00 apart. Each only comed with 1 magazine.

The only improvement I would make is the ability for a second strike, should the 1st strike fail. I almost thought I had a P7 in my hands - minus the grip cocker. It took me a few seconds to get the magazine release to work - as it was nicely positioned as part of the trigger guard.. Almost too nice, if you were looking to do a fast reload..

Just my 2 cents..

[bigfatdave]

Originally Posted by NRA-Life-Member

had my 1st chance to compare - hold and play with PPS in 40 and 9mm.
Both felt good. I was impressed with the THIN feeling it offers..
Both felt about the same in my hands..
Prices were about $ 20.00 apart. Each only comes with 1 magazine.
The only improvement I would make is the ability for a second strike, should the 1st strike fail. I almost thought I had a P7 in my hands - minus the grip cocker. It took me a few seconds to get the magazine release to work - as it was nicely positioned as part of the trigger guard.. Almost too nice, if you were looking to do a fast reload.

They feel the same because their external dimensions and weight are nearly identical ... both are nicely designed, from an ergonomics point of view. Personally, I prefer the extra round and reduced ammo cost of the 9mm, and mine fits my hand so well that follow-up shots are quick and natural, I imagine that it would be less so with the fo-tay.

The one magazine in the box is not a cool move on Walther/S&W's part. I am really annoyed at this trend, selling a magazine-fed gun with only one mag sort of defeats the purpose of having a magazine in the first place. I don't need five mags in the box, but there had better be two at least, or I might as well get a revolver! Either the gun makers expect us to reload from a pocketful of loose ammo, or they are deliberately running up the price by making us buy a piece of sheet metal, a plastic base, and a spring separately, and then most shops don't have mags in stock anyway!

Second strike capability adds a complex mechanism in between the trigger and striker, take a good look at the internal workings of a Taurus with that feature, and you may re-think your desire for it in the PPS. Personally, I'd rather train tap-rack-bang to the point of muscle memory, which works in just about every auto-loading pistol in the world, rather than worry about the exact features on any given pistol I'm putting on SD duty.

[Makaddict]

Originally Posted by bigfatdave

They feel the same because their external dimensions and weight are nearly identical ... both are nicely designed, from an ergonomics point of view. Personally, I prefer the extra round and reduced ammo cost of the 9mm, and mine fits my hand so well that follow-up shots are quick and natural, I imagine that it would be less so with the fo-tay.

The one magazine in the box is not a cool move on Walther/S&W's part. I am really annoyed at this trend, selling a magazine-fed gun with only one mag sort of defeats the purpose of having a magazine in the first place. I don't need five mags in the box, but there had better be two at least, or I might as well get a revolver! Either the gun makers expect us to reload from a pocketful of loose ammo, or they are deliberately running up the price by making us buy a piece of sheet metal, a plastic base, and a spring separately, and then most shops don't have mags in stock anyway!

Second strike capability adds a complex mechanism in between the trigger and striker, take a good look at the internal workings of a Taurus with that feature, and you may re-think your desire for it in the PPS. Personally, I'd rather train tap-rack-bang to the point of muscle memory, which works in just about every auto-loading pistol in the world, rather than worry about the exact features on any given pistol I'm putting on SD duty.

Yall do know the PPS can be re-cocked by moving the slide to the rear 3/8 of an inch. just incase you need to strike the round again.

[bigfatdave]

re-cocked by moving the slide to the rear 3/8 of an inch. just incase you need to strike the round again.

I know the ammo capacity is limited, but if I'm clearing a malfunction in an emergency, I'm going to a fresh round, not rolling the dice on the same dud again. At the range, I'll re-try a dud, AFTER ejecting it and inspecting it.
One dud ... it happens, probably a bad round ... tap, rack, back on target. More often than not, a "click" is due to an empty chamber, how many times are you going to dryfire before jacking the slide all the way? Remember, you have a reason to be shooting, so your attention is NOT on the LCI or checking the chamber, you should be running on training and feel. Inspecting the gun, counting rounds, or moving the slide just enough to re-pre-cock the striker ... not gonna happen in a real SD event.

Two duds in a row ... either a bad batch of ammo or a dead pistol. Either way, dump the mag and go to the reload*, be prepared to bluff or scoot if you get another "click".


* (I keep another brand of ammo in the reload magazine for this possibility, it costs me nothing to diversify my JHP buys)

[searcher451]

* (I keep another brand of ammo in the reload magazine for this possibility, it costs me nothing to diversify my JHP buys)

That's good advice, Dave, and something that I hadn't considered before. Thanks for planting that seed.

[Dmars]

BigDave, those are two fantastic posts in this one thread. The statement: Second strike capability adds a complex mechanism is absolutely correct. Nice job!

[bigfatdave]

Don't get too excited, guys ... I was probably picking my nose while dispensing that sage advice, and I may have been in my underwear.
Just kidding (mostly)

searcher451, the ammo diversification came to me in a flash of brilliance when I needed a second try on two rounds from the same box of range ammo. Add that to the fact that I can never seem to find the big boxes of SD ammo, and it is almost natural. I won't stagger rounds or load up a mag with more than one type, but I can easily and simply keep the spare mag as seperate from potential failures from the one in the gun as possible.

Dmars, the second strike gadget in a Taurus is actually fairly interesting, and I couldn't ID a likely failure mode, but I still think it isn't needed, and I'm not about to remember that one specific pistol has the feature, I'll be too damn busy trying to shoot&scoot for my own survival to evaluate the status of a pistol in any more detail than "more shooty" vs "no more shooty"

[searcher451]

Whatever the cause or reason you arrived at it, Dave, it's doggone good advice; thanks for sharing it with the board.

[bblackmoor]

Originally Posted by bigfatdave

I won't stagger rounds or load up a mag with more than one type...

Any particular reason why not? I have staggered ammunition in my carry guns for about ten years now (generally, Glaser rounds alternated with some variety of JHP... currently Winchester Silvertip). Should I feel silly for doing that?

[bigfatdave]

Just wondering, do the Glasers cycle the action reliably? And how did you afford enough to do reliability testing?

I don't see the point of frangible SD ammo, in addition to not performing as advertised in testing, the idea of sacrificing energy to penetrate for SD, for the "advantage" of not shooting through walls seems flawed. There aren't crowds waiting to be shot on the other side of every sheet of drywall, but if you're in a SD event, you need a real bullet, moving at the proper speed NOW.
I'll never remember what's loaded where in a mag, anyway, so I want the shots to all be the same in between reloads. Different ammo belongs in a seperate mag, to isolate malfunctions if nothing else.

http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm
Glaser 9mm going through 6 sheets of drywall, .357 goes through 9
http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot23.htm
ExtremeShock!!!!1! brand ammo testing, also not so great