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PPQ Trigger Pull

28K views 88 replies 38 participants last post by  kampers 
#1 ·
After purchasing my PPQ, I had the "gritty" trigger and followed instruction on polishing the Trigger Bar where it contacts the Firing Pin Block. Then had to bend the Trigger Bar contact very carefully and improved the "grittiness" feel from the Safety Block.

Still had the bit of "stickiness" with the trigger pull. I removed the Safety Block and the pull is SO much better. The pull weight is the same and has always been good, but now it is so smooth.

I do not plan on using the PPQ as my carry weapon, just a range pistol and target shooting. Shooting was excellent with most hits in the 9 & 10 ring at 10 yds and I feel now it should keep most shots in the 10 ring.

As a clarification, I do not want to start a war concerning safety by removing the block, but I have been shooting pistols for over 50 years and have always been safe. But, I would like to ask you guys opinion on removing the Block. A couple of friends of mine at work said if the factory put them on, don't remove them. A few more said they agree with my decision to remove so the pull would be smoother. My current carry pistols are a Beretta Cougar or a Sig P250 and a Ruger LCP in an ankle holster. I do not plan on any modifications to these pistols

Still love my Walther pistols though!!!!!
 
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#41 ·
How and what tools you guys used to bend the trigger bar??
After reading that PDF file, I tried to bend it with 2 wrenches and trigger bar was super hard.
I thought it was impossible without risk breaking the frame so I gave up.

My PPQ is the Navy version.
I am not sure if it has a different trigger bar or I was not doing it right.
 
#42 ·
Hi I have never owned a firearm and researched alot and decided on getting a PPQ M2 5". But now I am bugged about the trigger. There are a couple of threads about the "gritty" trigger. I thought the trigger was the best part and now I am going to buy a brand new gun and start bending parts to make it work right? Sorry if I sound negative but this bugs me.
 
#43 ·
There are a couple of threads about the "gritty" trigger. I thought the trigger was the best part and now I am going to buy a brand new gun and start bending parts to make it work right? Sorry if I sound negative but this bugs me.
Thankfully for you this isn't Glocktalk, haha. Legitimate question, most Walther fans are pretty realistic here and relatively secure with our Walthers to handle questioning.

Some people have reported a "gritty trigger", little oil and shooting typically solves the issue, some polish, others bend, the last two? I wouldn't recommend. :D

Keep in mind, those that have complained, said even with the grit the pull is still superior to other combat pistols.

I'm confident your 5" M2 will be a winner
 
#45 ·
Just to throw a quick tip out there

You can use a permanent marker and color the FPB contact surface.
Dry fire 20 times you will see exactly where your trigger bar is gliding on the FPB.
No more peeping through the mag well with a flash light.
I did this and figured out my trigger bar rides right in the middle so there's no point for me to bend it.
 
#48 ·
Just to throw a quick tip out there

You can use a permanent marker and color the FPB contact surface.
Dry fire 20 times you will see exactly where your trigger bar is gliding on the FPB.
No more peeping through the mag well with a flash light.
I did this and figured out my trigger bar rides right in the middle so there's no point for me to bend it.
Just curious, but is your trigger gritty?
 
#49 ·
My original NIB trigger was OK. However, I still polished the FPB and it did get a little better. After polishing I got a chance to go to the range and fired 275 rounds. The trigger improved a tiny bit more.

Right now
Under normal firing speed and pull, I wouldn't say its gritty, not at all.
But if I try to pull the trigger super light and slow then I can still feel the stickiness.

Another interesting tip I found.
If you want to lube the FPB, use grease or thin oil.
From my person experience, grease > thin oil > no oil > thick oil.
Thick oil makes it even worse.
 
#52 · (Edited)
Sorry, folks, but oil alone isn't going to resolve this issue. It may help a bit, but that's only if you get lucky.
I'm sorry smokemup, but this is just not true. My PPQ started out with a sticky trigger, and oil definitely made a big difference. There have been a lot of people in this forum reporting that oil also helped a lot on their PPQ pistols as well.

Now after a few thousand rounds have been put through my pistol, I haven't found the need to oil the FPB for a few months, and the trigger is still smooth. I'm assuming the metal to metal contact within the FPB channel has smoothed out a bit from use.

Here's an easy lesson... remove the plunger altogether and reassemble the pistol. Now how does it feel? Somewhere between awesome and perfect? That's how mine feels with the plunger in place although it's with a touch more resistance. How? Read the 'paper' where it talks about the plunger spring. Less tension equals less opposing pressure equals less contact tension in the bore equals a mo' better trigger take-up.

Get a pack of tiny springs from Wolff, or wherever, and start playing with it. Save the original spring, of course. The idea is to go as light as you can and still stay safe. If you don't want to bend anything, this alone may be all you need. Just polish the bore and the plunger and put in your tweaked lighter spring.
The bending of the trigger bar was a bad idea IMO, because it could result in a parts breakage. This one is even worse since it deals with the safety of the firearm.

Walther put a spring in there that is a certain weight, to do an important job. That job is to prevent the pistol from firing if the pistol is dropped, or if the striker is released prematurely, or with the slide and barrel out of battery.

If people are that picky when it comes to trigger feel, on a pistol that many people will agree has the best trigger of any striker fired pistol, I really don't know what to say to them.

I recommended that people not bend the trigger bar because I didn't want people to get broken parts. In this case, I strongly advise not to change the design of the safety features of your pistol, unless you know better than the Walther engineers how those parts function and what their exact purpose is, in the pistol, because it could result in something a lot worse than a broken part.

I don't think people should be cavalierly advising that just anyone out there can be changing important parts of their pistols, without even a disclaimer on what could happen if they mess up.
 
#53 ·
The friction of the firing pin block in the cylinder is the problem. There are many solutions.

I am not a professional gunsmith, and my sample size is small (1) so I cannot speak to every gritty trigger problem, but I agree with Smokemup. The reistance of the FPB plunger to sliding up and down is the problem.

Solutions: Polishing the plunger. Plating the plunger with PTFE nickle. Smoothing the trigger bar cam surface. Teflon. Oil. Grease. Spring tension.

All address the problem, all with positive results.

No Dremel tools needed.
 
#57 · (Edited)
Even the gunsmith that worked on the OP trigger bar didn't break the plunger ear, as you falsely claimed. What broke is the eyelet for the rear spring. Totally unrelated.
http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/ppq/26883-draggy-trigger-ppq.html

I'm not seeing any information on that thread where only the eyelet broke. What I am seeing, is a report of someone bending the trigger bar and having it break on them. Then the guy who is advising that people bend their trigger bars, is having a tantrum because I'm pointing this out. Grow up.

Now you're making claims that anything other than the factory plunger spring will ruin the safety of the gun.
Why don't you show me, in a quote, what I stated? Then tell me which part you disagree with.

Leave emotion aside and reread my last post.

So, if it were left to you, there would be no need for gunsmiths, aftermarket equipment, trigger jobs, customs sights, ammunition improvements, creative inventions, and basic American ingenuity, and Obama would be your goto guy. Nausea is setting in.
:D

Reaching much?

Try again.

You, and others, stated repeatedly that the only way to fix the "gritty trigger" was to bend the trigger bar. Explain this:

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/ppq/24647-ppq-butter.html
 
#58 ·
Bending the trigger bar ear is just one of the solutions introduced. Have your mother read the information back to you, please. How do "I" know the trigger bar ear wasn't broken by the OP's gunsmith? Because the gunsmith told me himself, smartass. What are you, 12, or suffering from a mental deficiency? Look, really, just because you bought a PPQ doesn't mean you know anything other than your mother is allowing you to look at it on your birthday when released from the 'facility.' Please go find another thread to disrupt with your misinformation.
 
#59 ·
Bending the trigger bar ear is just one of the solutions introduced. Have your mother read the information back to you, please. How do "I" know the trigger bar ear wasn't broken by the OP's gunsmith? Because the gunsmith told me himself, smartass. What are you, 12, or suffering from a mental deficiency? Look, really, just because you bought a PPQ doesn't mean you know anything other than your mother is allowing you to look at it on your birthday when released from the 'facility.' Please go find another thread to disrupt with your misinformation.
You're in NC?

Are you around Charlotte?

We should meet.
 
#61 ·
I think you two need to cool it... Smoke that is a nice write-up, but you need to learn how to deal with someone not falling in-line with your opinion without reducing to personal insults. I honestly see nothing "clueless" about balance's posts. He is just saying that people should err on the side of caution and not modify their pistols until they explore the basics first. He is doing this for the benefit of the noobs.

Additionally he expressed his opinion that perhaps your disclaimer at the top should be a little more detailed as to what can go wrong. I see no issue with that.

Also, I would like to know the legal ramifications of messing with the internal parts of a gun that might be carried for self defense. If a carry weapon were to suffer a failure that resulted in personal or property damage and upon inspection it was found that safety springs were changed and out of spec, would this not risk forfeiture of all insurance?

These are valid points and it never hurts to remind people of the consequences that could be involved when suggesting such things. That is just being a responsible person.
The last thing we need in the current environment are accidents caused by inexperienced people with guns. To suggest modifications to any firearm without proper warnings does no one any good. To put others down as buying into the "nanny state" for doing this is really unreasonable at best.

Owning and carrying firearms is an incredible responsibility and safety should never be discounted off-hand lest we wish to lose the right to bear.
 
#62 ·
I have tremendous concern for a PPQ being in use without its FPB. It isn't just in a carry situation and it isn't just the owner at risk. This design is fully cocked. People, please give Walther a shot at fixing misaligned parts.
 
#64 · (Edited)
Sure wish I could like this about 5 times lol...

I don't mind if someone "tinkers" with the specs of their weapon, just let me know so I can leave the range. :D

Just a quick cautionary tale that is a bit similar:
I'm a dive instructor and work with lots of very intelligent and mechanically inclined students (as well as many who are not so much).
Recently a student who has many logged dives (count hundreds) told me his regulator was breathing "hard". He didn't want to pay for an overhaul so he "tweaked" his second stage himself. He loved how easy it was breathing...
On the 3rd and final dive of the day we were at 90 feet when his 2nd stage failed. Regulators are designed to fail in the open position (called free flow). His eyes were huge as the gas escaped his regulator and his tank rapidly drained. I grabbed him and passed my regulator to him and used my backup to breathe myself and slowly took him to the surface.
His tinkering had caused the 2nd stage failure...he is fine and has a harrowing tale of diving the depths but the outcome could have been much different.

I'm not sure there is an exact parallel here but "tinkering" with your weapon could well cause unforeseen problems.
 
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#63 · (Edited)
At dawn. Down by the river.
:D

Actually, I was thinking this weekend, at this gunsmith's shop who broke the trigger bar. I'd like to know, first hand, how bending it, and breaking it, were totally unrelated.

I think you two need to cool it... Smoke that is a nice write-up, but you need to learn how to deal with someone not falling in-line with your opinion without reducing to personal insults. I honestly see nothing "clueless" about balance's posts. He is just saying that people should err on the side of caution and not modify their pistols until they explore the basics first. He is doing this for the benefit of the noobs.

Additionally he expressed his opinion that perhaps your disclaimer at the top should be a little more detailed as to what can go wrong. I see no issue with that.

Also, I would like to know the legal ramifications of messing with the internal parts of a gun that might be carried for self defense. If a carry weapon were to suffer a failure that resulted in personal or property damage and upon inspection it was found that safety springs were changed and out of spec, would this not risk forfeiture of all insurance?

These are valid points and it never hurts to remind people of the consequences that could be involved when suggesting such things. That is just being a responsible person.
The last thing we need in the current environment are accidents caused by inexperienced people with guns. To suggest modifications to any firearm without proper warnings does no one any good. To put others down as buying into the "nanny state" for doing this is really unreasonable at best.

Owning and carrying firearms is an incredible responsibility and safety should never be discounted off-hand lest we wish to lose the right to bear.
You understand where I was coming from.

What you stated is true. One irresponsible gun owner effects all of us, and safety should always be in the #1 spot when dealing with firearms.

Others seemed to be fine with the advice that was given. I thought at least one person should speak up and advise a bit of caution. I'm not sure why others felt I was attacking them, and I really don't care, especially at this point.
 
#69 ·
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread. I just wanted to post my findings. I got my Q 9mm last week on Thursday. During the two days before range weekend, I probably dry fired it 20-30 times. The trigger although smooth and light while quick firing, was a bit gritty while taking up the slack one handed, simulating target practice. I did not give much though as it was of no concern. Last Sunday I put 130 rounds of 124grs Sellier & Bellot FMJ's through the gun with no issues whatsoever. Dry firing the gun again today it was still slightly gritty at the trigger. I read through all the threads regarding this, and decided to oil the parts that balance mentioned in another thread. Before that I used the permanent marker tip to see if my trigger bar was sliding center on the FPB. It was very difficult for me to judge it by looking down the magazine well. Anyway the trigger bar was riding perfectly center on the FPB. After oiling up the grittiness did go away some. I assume it will get better with time when both metal ends blend in on each other. Just my 2 Eurocents.
 
#70 ·
I've been following this thread and I noticed a real nasty grittiness in my PPQ M2. My friend bought his a week after mine and his take up is like butter. Mine has all sorts of grit. I followed the steps and aligned my trigger bar. It didn't help. It looks like the angle in which the trigger bar hits the FPB causes the FPB to depress with grittiness. Pressing the FPB straight down has no issues at all. Silky smooth, but pushing it at the angle in which a trigger bar would contact it caused a lot of grittiness. I shot another few hundred rounds through, sat around the house and just pulled the trigger over and over to see if it would smooth out and no real luck.

I called Walther today and they sent me a overnight fedex slip to send the gun in so I did. We'll see what the turn around is like... sent it directly to Umarex in Fort Worth, AR.
 
#88 ·
Mine is the same way.

I figured out that mine is doing the same thing. It's the way the design is done. The trigger bar is moving perpendicular to the up/down motion of the FPB thing. So when the lobe on the trigger bar first makes initial contact with the tooth on the FPB thing the FPB is moved back wards as well as downward. Only after it's down inside the FPB hole in the slide does the gritty feeling go away. Now if you pull the trigger very slowly you feel the grittiness more than if you pull the trigger faster.

I started pulling the trigger slower to try and control when the gun fired in order to try to shoot more accurately. And after reading these forums I figured out what was causing the gritty feeling in the initial take up before the gun fires. The pre-travel on my trigger has some initial friction as the trigger is rubbing the frame as the trigger goes back up into the frame on the left side (AS when shooting the gun the left side is my left side point of reference). And I can see scratches on my trigger on the left side and not the right side. In fact their is more gap space between the trigger and the frame of the pistol on the right side. And my trigger moves to the right side a bit (1 mm or 2) when I push it from left to right with my finger.

I'm not sure what can really fix this problem totally. It's more of an annoyance than a problem really. But I want to try to improve my long range accuracy *25 yards and getting the trigger pull smoother might help me do that. It's more annoying that a big deal. I'm wondering why some have noticed the problem while other's have not? I realized that the trigger bar is a stamped steel part and may not be the same exact dimensions on every gun. And maybe some people are just yanking the trigger and noticing the slow pull gritty feeling.

I cleaned my gun and bent the spring under the FPB. I got some new springs from Walthers Arms and installed a new replacement factory spring. I was hoping that would make the FPB go straight down and not hit the sides of the hole when the trigger bar's fin made contact with the tooth on the FPB but to no avail. The FPB still moves back and slides up on the walls of the hole causing more friction than when I push the FPB straight down with a tooth pick or pencil. If the FPB sides don't make contact with the sides of the hole in the slide then it's super smooth.

I am wondering if the new pin in in there straight under the FPB. Isn't there a hole in the bottom of the FBP hole in the slide for the bottom of the spring to sit into so that the spring sits up straight in the hole? Maybe the bottom of the new spring didn't get seated straight in the hole? I'm wondering what's going on. I may double check the spring and make sure that it's straight up and down the next time I take the extractor bar off.
.
 
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