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Old 03-09-2012, 10:42 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by jonbondave View Post
I've never relied on loaded chamber indicator's.
What he said. I'll have to try my PPQ out this weekend, however I do not like relying on things like that. I just presume it is always loaded and act on that presumption. I can see how it would be helpful for carrying to make sure you racked it. Still, I always go by the presiding theory that the gun is loaded so I am not reliant on something that might not work or that could fail. I'm not saying it is the right way to do things or anything, I'd just rather be safe than wrong. Plus, I generally shoot guns that do not have a loaded chamber indicator so I think it helps to pretend they do not exist for when I move back to my 1911's or a revolver or a gun where the indicator is not someplace intuitive to me. If I was not sure I would manually check under the presumption that it was loaded.

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Old 03-09-2012, 10:46 AM   #12
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The older you get, and the worse your eyes become, the more irrelevant it becomes. Still, it does serve its intended function. But Dave I's caution -- the pistol is always loaded -- is spot-on.
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:47 AM   #13
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I understand completely why gun manufacturers build LCI’s into their platforms, because more and more states require this, and some people like having it as a backup.

I am a man of routine before I leave the house, I go through a sequence and the last part is a press check of my M&P, and a tap on the back of the slide to assure it’s fully in battery, then into the holster.
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:50 AM   #14
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I am not sure it even has one, I think it's our imagination.
Oh it's there and it works, you just have to look really really close and you can see the little red dot. That is if your holding it just right, focus real hard and the sun is at the right angle.
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:55 AM   #15
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I never look at mine. Loading a pistol is a disciplined routine for me. If there is a loaded mag in it, there is one in the chamber... guaranteed. I never put in a full mag without racking one into the chamber. Regular habit.
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Old 03-09-2012, 03:15 PM   #16
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Whew!!!....I feel safer already knowing some many people assume so much, but can you gaurantee your weapon is loaded in every situation every time?? I know I cannot cause my superman jammies didn't come with x-ray vision. Yes every time a weapon is handled one should ASSUME or treat it as loaded. No one is event contemplating contesting this. I however cannot afford to assume my weapons are loaded before executing a warrant, or after reloading the weapon and attempting to pursue someone I can assume the round is chambered, or having the weapon out of my possession for any amount of time and trusting the weapon to still be loaded. NOT gonna go out that way. I have suffered FTF's in "hot" situations both in the military and government service and since then it has ALWAYS been a CARDINAL RULE to check a chamber, especially as many times as law enforcement has to clear and secure weapons these days in various situations. I really like the idea of checking the chamber of my weapon by using the LCI or just feeling of the extractor as a self-check and confidence modifier before..lol..not during or after I get at the alibi firing stage.....because in real life you cannot alibi fire in a confrontational situation....thats a good way to wind up graveyard dead.
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Old 03-09-2012, 03:54 PM   #17
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You can use it to make sure the pistol is loaded, but don't ever use it to make sure the pistol is unloaded.

If the front of the extractor is broken or chipped, it is possible that the rear of the extractor will not pivot in, and the LCI will indicate that the pistol is unloaded, when it is possible that it is. Extractors break or chip in this area on occasion.

Quote:
I understand completely why gun manufacturers build LCI’s into their platforms, because more and more states require this, and some people like having it as a backup.
And it gives imported pistols extra import points.

As useless (IMO) as the LCI is on these pistols, I assume the extra import points was the main reason Walther included this on the PPQ.
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Old 03-09-2012, 04:49 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Digger95 View Post
Whew!!!....I feel safer already knowing some many people assume so much, but can you gaurantee your weapon is loaded in every situation every time?? I know I cannot cause my superman jammies didn't come with x-ray vision. Yes every time a weapon is handled one should ASSUME or treat it as loaded. No one is event contemplating contesting this. I however cannot afford to assume my weapons are loaded before executing a warrant, or after reloading the weapon and attempting to pursue someone I can assume the round is chambered, or having the weapon out of my possession for any amount of time and trusting the weapon to still be loaded. NOT gonna go out that way.
That makes sense. Or, as balance put it:

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Originally Posted by balance View Post
You can use it to make sure the pistol is loaded, but don't ever use it to make sure the pistol is unloaded.
I can see (especially in Digger95's LE scenarios where they have to clear & secure their weapons and not just leave them loaded and on their person) where the loaded chamber indicator could be important. That said, for most of us not in that situation, I would have to imagine two things would be more practical considerations or practices. Namely:

1) Loading the Chamber Every Time: Or don't for that matter, I suppose. However being consistent seems like it should be key. Know that every time you load the gun you put one in the chamber so that it is a consistent pattern, or I guess practice racking the gun every time you draw it for use (unless it's a revolver). Second;

2) Practice FTF/FTE Drills: Again, I'm not LEO. I can afford to just rack the +1 everytime and just presume the gun is always loaded. I cannot necessarily guarantee I'll be able to tell some LCI is (or is not) raised or some chamber window is necessarily showing one in the chamber. That is not to say they cannot be useful. It IS saying that for me I would rather just get into the habit of keeping a carry gun fully loaded and treat it as such, then use drills so that if it for whatever reason was NOT loaded with one in the chamber, or you have a FTF (or FTE), you just instinctively pull back the slide.

While I am not guaranteeing I could just naturally pull that off like some sort of modern day gunslinger, I do think that would be more manageable a practice under any sort of duress than trying to check a LCI. It is just a matter of drawing, flick the safety off (if/when applicable), pull the trigger, then if it does not shoot you automatically rack the slide because it means something is wrong. Would that not be faster then futzing with the LCI, especially since you will have to rack the gun anyway if things did not go as planned? I am not being snarky, just asking. I am also coming form a perspective of never using the LCI since most of my guns do not have them and the ones that do I just treat the same way. I would just rather not learn to rely on them. Again, I am not saying I am doing it "the right way" or anything, more or less explaining my perspective.

-Cheers
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Old 03-09-2012, 07:15 PM   #19
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Digger95 Unproven
Good points there Dave I. I learned my lesson while stationed in the FRG during the 80's. While attempting to arrest some people working with the Badder Meinhoff gang, we got into a shooting incident. While attempting to enter a house I observed a tango and attempted to engage but my boom stick didn't go boom and I then recieved a 380 souvenier to the right leg. Later I found out that the slide had ridden forward after a reload but failed to strip a round from the magazine and chamber it. Was determined to be an excessively worn magazine. So now every time I pull my weapon, I simply spend .1 seconds touching the extractor to ensure there is a round in the chamber. You will observe I have not even implied that the LCI should be used to check or ensure the weapon is clear. The Mod. 1 eyeball or your pinky finger in the dark IMHO are the only tools authorized..lol..I had to learn these lessons just as I had to learn "train to retain" and these lessons stick with me even after turning into the "crusty the clown" guy. I will also relate my father used to carry a 1911 on duty with the chamber cleared but magazine loaded but after his trial by fire he learned there is no substitue for a locked and cocked weapon. My personal policy is a loaded/unchambered weapon isn't a weapon, its a brick on your hip. My shooting buddies and myself train for failure drills by loading each others magazines with random dummy rounds so we can all train to effect clearing drills. I can hope and pray that everyone will never have to clear leather with their weapon, these are just lessons people like myself have learned the hard way and things like checking a chamber are muscle memory things just like changing magazines and such.

Last edited by Digger95; 03-09-2012 at 07:29 PM. Reason: sorry me and this keyboard are at war..lol
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Old 03-09-2012, 09:50 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by jonbondave View Post
I've never relied on loaded chamber indicator's.
+1, jonbondave.
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