What's with all the PP super .380's ????

[mixologist]

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Thank you for the info. I assume that 9x18 is difficult to find.

[Winterwind]

There are two PP Supers--

9x18 Ultra, which was mft'ed from 6/74 to 1979 but sold until 1981. The serial # range was for 10,001 to 21,101. thus 11,000 were made. The ammo is marked 9x18 Ultra or 9x18 Police (I have seperate runs of Fiocchi labeled both ways).

9mm Kurz (aka 380 acp) which was mft'ed from 5/76 until 1979 but sold until 1981. Serial # range from 100,001 to 101,300, thus 1300 were made in 9mm Kurz. Appx 1000 were sold in US.

The 9x18 Ultra is commonly found BUT the ammo is not. When you do find it, buy a bunch.

The 9mm Kurz is harder to find (look at the number made above) and the more costly of the two.

They do make a nice set.

[Scouts10]

Type: Double Action
Calibers: 9x18 Police and 9x17 Browning Short (9mm Kurz/.380ACP)
Weight unloaded: 780 g
Length: 176 mm
Barrel length: 92 mm
Capacity: 7 rounds

The Walther PP Super pistol came into existence circa 1972, as a proposed service handgun for West German police. At that period, German police looked for a new standard handgun and ammunition, to replace obsolete and underpowered pistols then in service. During the early 1970s there was much debate about a new service cartridge, and two major contenders were the already famous 9x19mm Luger/Parabellum, and the relatively new 9x18 Police cartridge. The 9x18 Police cartridge has been based on pre-WW2 9x18mm Ultra ammunition, developed in Germany by the Geco and Walther on request from Luftwaffe (German Air Forces). The 9x18 cartridge offered about a maximum power which could be used in relatively compact and lightweight blowback pistols. This, in turn, allowed these pistols to be simpler and less expensive than locked-breech 9x19mm pistols. Recognizing these advantages of 9x18 ammunition, the Walther company developed a police pistol, roughly based on the famous Walther PP pistol, and called it PP Super. However, by mid-1970s German law enforcement authorities selected the more powerful 9x19mm ammunition as a standard, and by the end of 1970s the 9x18 Police ammo went out of favor; Only about 2 000 of 9x18 PP Super pistols were purchased by Bavarian Police during 1970s. Some of PP Super pistols were also made in 9x17 short caliber, but the future of the police handguns was in 9mm Luger, and the Walther company dropped the PP Super from manufacture circa 1979, focusing on 9x19mm pistols like P5 and P38 / P1 / P4.
The Walther PP Super is an all-steel, blowback operated, double action pistol. Unlike its predecessor, the Walther PP, the PP Super featured an external slide stop lever, and a manual decocker on the left side of the slide, which, when pushed down, locked the firing pin and released the hammer, and then automatically returned to the 'fire' position. There was no manual safety, but the PP Super has a firing pin safety, and was intended to be carried with the loaded chamber and hammer down, ready to be fired in double action mode. The magazine catch is located on the side of the grip, next to triggerguard.
A word of caution to the owners of Walther PP Super pistol. The scarce 9x18mm Police/Ultra ammunition is NOT compatible with Soviet 9x18 Makarov PM ammunition. Attempts to fire 9x18 Makarov ammunition from PP Super pistol are very dangerous due to the larger diameter of 9mm Makarov bullet.

[GeoNole94]

Originally Posted by mixologist

Thank you for the info. I assume that 9x18 is difficult to find.

The Super chambered in 9x18 ultra is readily available now on GI and GB. All on GB are listed at $650 and haven't sold in several relistings, including one with five boxes of ammo and one with box and full paperwork, target.

The sale at $450 for the .380ACP version was a combo of a low buy now price and luck

[GeoNole94]

Originally Posted by Winterwind

There are two PP Supers--

9x18 Ultra, which was mft'ed from 6/74 to 1979 but sold until 1981. The serial # range was for 10,001 to 21,101. thus 11,000 were made. The ammo is marked 9x18 Ultra or 9x18 Police (I have seperate runs of Fiocchi labeled both ways).

9mm Kurz (aka 380 acp) which was mft'ed from 5/76 until 1979 but sold until 1981. Serial # range from 100,001 to 101,300, thus 1300 were made in 9mm Kurz. Appx 1000 were sold in US.

The 9x18 Ultra is commonly found BUT the ammo is not. When you do find it, buy a bunch.

The 9mm Kurz is harder to find (look at the number made above) and the more costly of the two.

They do make a nice set.

Yes, ammo was why I didn't get a super chambered in ultra. But, I love your matched set and need to take the plunge.

[metrotps]

To quote Scouts10 "A word of caution to the owners of Walther PP Super pistol. The scarce 9x18mm Police/Ultra ammunition is NOT compatible with Soviet 9x18 Makarov PM ammunition. Attempts to fire 9x18 Makarov ammunition from PP Super pistol are very dangerous due to the larger diameter of 9mm Makarov bullet."
This is why:
9mm x 17mm or .380 bullets are .355 diameter
9mm x 18mm Ultra or Police bullets are .355 diameter
9mm x 18mm Makarov bullets are .366 diameter.

[halfmoonclip]

A quick perusal of my loading manuals doesn't even mention the beast, and a voice in the back of my head sez that there is no real interchange of the 9mm Ultra, .380, or 9mm when it comes to reloading dies and equipment, tho' I'm willing to be wrong about that. Bullet diameter comes out okay, but it seems to me there is some other issue to keep you from readily reloading the brass, even if you can acquire some, without dedicated dies.
Moon

[rbmcmjr]

My copy of Cartridges of the World shows it as the "9mm Ultra" and notes that it is also known as the 9mm Police. They list a load of 3.6 grains of W231 behind a 100 grain bullet for 1010 fps and 225 lbs-ft (at the muzzle).

[Winterwind]

Do a Google search of 9x18 vs 380 or do a prior search on the forum, there are several dealing with reloading, etc......