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Old 05-13-2012, 09:54 AM   #1
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Post War German PPK .380 vs Sig 232

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What are the perceived pros and cons of these two firearms as a CCW.

The Sig appears to have been derived from the PPK. The takedown lever is an additional complication and the European style mag release requires a different technique for tactical mag changes. The larger Sig would be more difficult to conceal.

The Sig seems to have a reputation as more reliable than the PPK.

Thoughts?
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:18 AM   #2
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The Yankee Marshal has a comparison video of the two on youtube...

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Old 05-14-2012, 08:55 AM   #3
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Post War German PPK .380 vs Sig 232

Thanks. I had seen it. It features a Smith & Walther, not an Ulm PPK.
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:11 AM   #4
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The answer to the riddle may simply be put into the context of whether you want to own a Walther or a SIG when it's all said and done. As with most everything, it all comes down to personal preference. I've handled the SIG more than a few times and shot it a half-dozen times as well. It's always felt like a brick in my hand.
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:01 AM   #5
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Post War German PPK .380 vs Sig 232

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Originally Posted by searcher451 View Post
The answer to the riddle may simply be put into the context of whether you want to own a Walther or a SIG when it's all said and done. As with most everything, it all comes down to personal preference. I've handled the SIG more than a few times and shot it a half-dozen times as well. It's always felt like a brick in my hand.
Thanks for the pithy and focused answer. I continue to enjoy the way this forum is run. Kudos to you!

Since my last posting I acquired a 1967 Ulm PPK, and it being my second German PPK (1966 in the safe) took it to the range for some extended testing. BIG MISTAKE. It really DOES feel different than the Smith and Walther, and in handling it further thru many cycles of cleaning and firing one cannot escape the difference in "feel" between the two iterations.

On it's way to my CCW rotation "Friends" raised the question of reliability and urged my to get a Sig 232 instead. However the PPK fits my hand extremely well, I have never been "bitten" and it, at least on paper, would appear to be easier to carry concealed than the Sig. Since I replaced the magazine with a factory original I have put nearly 100 rounds of FMJ thru it without a hiccup. It eats the less aggressive profile HP brands (i.e Remington Golden Saber) but does get indigestion with the SPEER Gold Dots.
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truthspeaker View Post
Since my last posting I acquired a 1967 Ulm PPK, and it being my second German PPK (1966 in the safe) took it to the range for some extended testing. BIG MISTAKE. It really DOES feel different than the Smith and Walther, and in handling it further thru many cycles of cleaning and firing one cannot escape the difference in "feel" between the two iterations.
How does the S&W and Walther feel different from the "Ulm" (which is also a German manufacture)?
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:55 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Glenn-SC View Post
How does the S&W and Walther feel different from the "Ulm" (which is also a German manufacture)?
"Ulm"="German" Post War Walther (as opposed to Manhurin or Interarms) in this case a 1967 PPK chambered in .380. I have not spent sufficient range time with a Z-M Walther to comment on their performance, (but would be delighted to do so if there was an opportunity).

Specifically (and admittedly much of this is subjective)--

Fit and finish are superior. Blueing is deeper. No tool marks. EVERY part lines up perfectly. I haven't taken a micrometer to it, but it seems that the parts are more uniform in dimension than the Smith made counterpart.

Function more precise and "crisp." Feels as if it had been forged from a solid block of steel, as opposed to cast. More like an integrated machine than a collection of parts. I don't know if this is just perception as opposed to physics, but the recoil even feels different, as if the more "solid" firearm better focuses and propagates the energy of recoil. The frame without the tang is more comfortable to grip (when using the "biteless" technique illustrated by Pilotsteve). Not to say that it is more comfortable for extended range work than the Smith. Feels a bit more balanced , and "points" better on initial presentation.
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:25 PM   #8
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthspeaker View Post
Thanks for the pithy and focused answer. I continue to enjoy the way this forum is run. Kudos to you!

Since my last posting I acquired a 1967 Ulm PPK, and it being my second German PPK (1966 in the safe) took it to the range for some extended testing. BIG MISTAKE. It really DOES feel different than the Smith and Walther, and in handling it further thru many cycles of cleaning and firing one cannot escape the difference in "feel" between the two iterations.

On it's way to my CCW rotation "Friends" raised the question of reliability and urged my to get a Sig 232 instead. However the PPK fits my hand extremely well, I have never been "bitten" and it, at least on paper, would appear to be easier to carry concealed than the Sig. Since I replaced the magazine with a factory original I have put nearly 100 rounds of FMJ thru it without a hiccup. It eats the less aggressive profile HP brands (i.e Remington Golden Saber) but does get indigestion with the SPEER Gold Dots.
1. OK, Lets get one thing straight, if your Walther PP, PPK, or PPK/s were "made in Germany" there is a good possiblity that it was made in France then shipped to Ulm for stamping. From the 1950's to 1986 all PP, PPK, and PPK/s were made in France. Some retained the French markings, while others were sent to Ulm un-stamped and un-finished, to be completed there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn-SC View Post
How does the S&W and Walther feel different from the "Ulm" (which is also a German manufacture)?
2. OK, Lets get one thing straight, if your Walther PP, PPK, or PPK/s were "made in Germany" there is a good possiblity that it was made in France then shipped to Ulm for stamping. From the 1950's to 1986 all PP, PPK, and PPK/s were made in France. Some retained the French markings, while others were sent to Ulm un-stamped and un-finished, to be completed there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthspeaker View Post
"Ulm"="German" Post War Walther (as opposed to Manhurin or Interarms) in this case a 1967 PPK chambered in .380. I have not spent sufficient range time with a Z-M Walther to comment on their performance, (but would be delighted to do so if there was an opportunity).

Specifically (and admittedly much of this is subjective)--

Fit and finish are superior. Blueing is deeper. No tool marks. EVERY part lines up perfectly. I haven't taken a micrometer to it, but it seems that the parts are more uniform in dimension than the Smith made counterpart.

Function more precise and "crisp." Feels as if it had been forged from a solid block of steel, as opposed to cast. More like an integrated machine than a collection of parts. I don't know if this is just perception as opposed to physics, but the recoil even feels different, as if the more "solid" firearm better focuses and propagates the energy of recoil. The frame without the tang is more comfortable to grip (when using the "biteless" technique illustrated by Pilotsteve). Not to say that it is more comfortable for extended range work than the Smith. Feels a bit more balanced , and "points" better on initial presentation.
3. OK, Lets get one thing straight, if your Walther PP, PPK, or PPK/s were "made in Germany" there is a good possiblity that it was made in France then shipped to Ulm for stamping. From the 1950's to 1986 all PP, PPK, and PPK/s were made in France. Some retained the French markings, while others were sent to Ulm un-stamped and un-finished, to be completed there.
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:07 PM   #9
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This comment surely won't be too popular here, but nonetheless, I prefer the Sig Sauer P232 over the PPK in 9mm kurz. IMHO, the P232 is absolutely one of the finest pistol being produced currently in 9mm kurz. The gun is accurate, feeds hollow point ammunition reliably, and is lite in weight. Also, it has a very classy stream-lined look to it.
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickJZ View Post
This comment surely won't be too popular here, but nonetheless, I prefer the Sig Sauer P232 over the PPK in 9mm kurz. IMHO, the P232 is absolutely one of the finest pistol being produced currently in 9mm kurz. The gun is accurate, feeds hollow point ammunition reliably, and is lite in weight. Also, it has a very classy stream-lined look to it.
If the SIG had a magazine release like the Walther, I'd be carrying the SIG.
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