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Old 04-10-2011, 11:33 PM   #1
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halfmoonclip .22
.32 ACP reloading issue

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I am a fan of the PP series in .32 ACP, and have been reloading for myself and some others at our Club. Our range officer casts 75 gr RNL bullets sized .309", and all was well until I purchased some new Rem-UMC brass, which seems to be the only current production.
Frequently, the bullets will drop entirely in to a resized case, with no case grip on the bullet at all. The issue seems to be that this new brass has a wall thickness of only 0.011", while the older brass seems to run 0.015". The thinner brass ends up with an inner diameter too great to hold the bullet.
Our range officer has been sizing the bullets at 0.313", which generally is enough to make up the difference, tho' there is some cratering of the primers, (pressure?) and the larger diameter is really more than optimal for the guns.
Anybody have any suggestions or a source for brass with thicker wall thickness? I really like to shoot these .32s (and am giving some thought to grabbing a Scorpion just for grins), but if the ammo is going to be this much of an issue, never mind.
Ideas?
Thnx,
Moon
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:19 AM   #2
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Roboslug .22
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfmoonclip View Post
I am a fan of the PP series in .32 ACP, and have been reloading for myself and some others at our Club. Our range officer casts 75 gr RNL bullets sized .309", and all was well until I purchased some new Rem-UMC brass, which seems to be the only current production.
Frequently, the bullets will drop entirely in to a resized case, with no case grip on the bullet at all. The issue seems to be that this new brass has a wall thickness of only 0.011", while the older brass seems to run 0.015". The thinner brass ends up with an inner diameter too great to hold the bullet.
Our range officer has been sizing the bullets at 0.313", which generally is enough to make up the difference, tho' there is some cratering of the primers, (pressure?) and the larger diameter is really more than optimal for the guns.
Anybody have any suggestions or a source for brass with thicker wall thickness? I really like to shoot these .32s (and am giving some thought to grabbing a Scorpion just for grins), but if the ammo is going to be this much of an issue, never mind.
Ideas?
Thnx,
Moon
Hello from a first time poster and long time lurker. Here are a couple of ideas:

1) Magtech brass. I have no idea how good (consistent length, open flash hole) it is.

Magtech Brass 32 ACP - MidwayUSA

2) How about a slightly "undersize" sizing die? It would hold the proper size bullet w/o exhibiting the high pressure primer issues. A good machine shop could make one by copying your die with the "adjusted" inside diameter. Though it would not be a carbide die.

Or

take an existing die of a smaller caliber and have it turned out to make a new die.

How many reloads are you getting per case?

Roboslug
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:49 PM   #3
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halfmoonclip .22
Robo, thanks for the link to the MagTech brass. I've used their product in the past and been satisfied. I'll follow up to see if they actually have it in stock, because that damnable Rem-UMC has been the only thing actually showing up.

Pistol sizing dies are generally made of very hard tungsten carbide, which makes it unnecessary to lube the cases before sizing. Modifying a TC is about impossible.

I did spend a couple hours on the phone today chasing this down, and ended up ordering a Redding sizing die, which should be slightly smaller (and rounder; brass out of my Lee die has a couple three thousandths variance depending on where you measure). The Redding cost more than twice as much as the Lee ($68.90 with shipping), and I hope it solves the problem.
It does appear to be a tolerance stacking issue.
Moon
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:52 PM   #4
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Yeah, if you actually try to order, they're out of stock...supposed to be available next month.
We'll see if the sizing die solves the problem.
Moon
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Old 04-12-2011, 12:52 AM   #5
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Stan11 .22
Just a side notice, I just recently managed to buy rather empty tiny 'book' on Walther
('PP&PPK Do everything manual'), it says there 'The Walther factory has stated it is against the use of reloaded ammunition and in fact will void the warranty if reloaded ammunition is used in this fine firearm'.
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Old 04-12-2011, 11:06 AM   #6
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halfmoonclip .22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan11 View Post
Just a side notice, I just recently managed to buy rather empty tiny 'book' on Walther
('PP&PPK Do everything manual'), it says there 'The Walther factory has stated it is against the use of reloaded ammunition and in fact will void the warranty if reloaded ammunition is used in this fine firearm'.
Stan, this 'cover yer keester' language is present in the literature from nearly every gun company, as they cannot control the quality of reloads nor the diligence of the guy doing the reloading. Were it not for reloading, I truly could not afford to shoot as much as I do. The Dillon press on my bench was purchased in partnership with a buddy who loved to shoot but hated to reload. It is the answer to a handgunner's dream, as it lets you crank out a lot of good ammo in very little time.

The Dillon has paid for itself many times over, and I work really hard at quality control. In any case, the newest Walther I own is long out of warranty, so collecting on a claim is the least of my worries....
Moon
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Old 04-12-2011, 09:54 PM   #7
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imashooter2 .22
Nominal bullet diameter for a .32 ACP is .312 diameter and cast should be sized .313. The force required to swage a .313 diameter lead bullet to .312 is not going to drive excess pressures.

Case capacity of the .32 ACP is tiny. Small variations in powder charge or seating depth can have a large effect on pressure. Bullet set back on feeding can spike pressure very quickly. This is best mitigated by using a larger diameter bullet to achieve good neck tension and a slower powder to provide a longer, shallower pressure curve.

FWIW, I've loaded and shot many thousands of Hornady .314 diameter 90 grain SWC over Alliant Herco in my PP. Absolutely no pressure or battering issues.
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Old 04-12-2011, 10:11 PM   #8
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imashooter2 .22
A typical cartridge diagram:

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Old 04-13-2011, 08:56 PM   #9
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halfmoonclip .22
ima, I was really ready to challenge your info and ask where in hell you got it, but then I did some further research in my own loading manuals.
The original .309" came from my much relied on Lyman 47 & 48, tho' they do allow for .311 jacketed bullets.
Some other examples:
Speer #13 .312" Gold Dots
Hogdon #25 .311"
Hornady #4 .311"
Lyman #44 .308" to .312"
A conversation with a techie at Redding indicated that going up to .310" should be right.
Now I am perplexed. I've ordered a new sizing die from Redding, as the sized brass from my Lee varied a couple three thousandths depending on where you measured the case.
My concern about pressure came from the larger-than-suggested bullet diameter (.313+") and some slight cratering of the primers with these bullets. Now I'll agree that the primers were relatively soft Federals and the PP I shot them in might have a loose firing pin fit.
On the one hand, data is based on a huge variety of pistols going back a century or more. On the other, how can there be so much variation allowable in bullet diameter? Especially manufactured bullet data? And finally, why wasn't it a problem 'till we shifted to newer production Rem-UMC brass?
I do want to get this resolved, because a bunch of us from our Club really do like shooting our old .32s (and then there's that Scorpion...).
Any other suggetions? And ima, where did you get your data?
Thnx,
Moon
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Old 04-15-2011, 11:58 AM   #10
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halfmoonclip .22
Posted the same question over at The High Road, and got similar responses to ima's. They aren't usually endorsing bullets as large as .313", but bigger than .309" is certainly preferred.
In their considered opinion, the thin case walls on the Remington brass was the entire issue, and there were some suggestions of alternate places to get brass with thicker walls. Some of them may actually have brass...
Moon
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