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Old 11-26-2009, 06:11 PM   #1
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Walther pp making ac

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To start off I'm new here. I have looked at the marking link on this website. This firearm has the police stamp on the side and the crown N marking. Under the serial number is ac stamped in it. I know that this firearm dates back to atleast 1940 ish. The only reason that I know (besides it looks like a Walther) it's a Walther, markings are on the grip. What does the ac mean? More info would help as I don't know much about this era firearm. Any help would be great.
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:14 PM   #2
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Welcome to the forum; we trust that you'll enjoy your time here.

During WWII, the Germans assigned letter codes to munitions manufacturers and others with military significance: rail car makers, parts suppliers, etc. The object was to keep the Allies guessing as to where the guns/parts/supplies were made. The Walther code was ac; you see it all the time on the P.38s that were turned out by the Walther plant during the war. You also see it on the PP and PPK pistols that were made during this period. The Mauser code, by the way, was byf; the Spreewerk code was cyq.

If you provide us with the serial number, we can mostly provide you with a born-on date.

For detailed information, you might consider buying Dieter Marschall's book "Walther Pistols Models 1 Through P99," available from Ucross Books in Los Alamos, New Mexico.
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:28 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by searcher451 View Post
Welcome to the forum; we trust that you'll enjoy your time here.

During WWII, the Germans assigned letter codes to munitions manufacturers and others with military significance: rail car makers, parts suppliers, etc. The object was to keep the Allies guessing as to where the guns/parts/supplies were made. The Walther code was ac; you see it all the time on the P.38s that were turned out by the Walther plant during the war. You also see it on the PP and PPK pistols that were made during this period. The Mauser code, by the way, was byf; the Spreewerk code was cyq.

If you provide us with the serial number, we can mostly provide you with a born-on date.

For detailed information, you might consider buying Dieter Marschall's book "Walther Pistols Models 1 Through P99," available from Ucross Books in Los Alamos, New Mexico.
THANK YOU! This info is really helpful on the research were doing on the firearm. A DOB would be great. Serial# 37xx63 P
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:34 PM   #4
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I just finished reading the book Searcher recommended. Lots of good info there.

Welcome to the forum too!
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:05 PM   #5
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Hi member rtpipkin! Welcome to our forum...

While the Serial Number you gave us is indeed within the range of an "ac" code Walther PP (late 1944-early 1945)...it should have a Nazi Eagle/N stamp. A pre-war "Crown/N" (commercial) stamp doesn't make sense on a late Nazi-era PP. Here are a few other questions that would assist us in identifying your pistol and its approximate value:
1) Does the pistol have an "Eagle/N" stamp on the frame, slide, or barrel?
2) If the pistol has a “Crown N” stamp where is it located (slide or frame, right or left side) and what does it look like...is it horizontal or vertical?
3) Are the Serial Numbers matching or do the frame and slide have different numbers?
4) Are there any markings located behind the trigger guard on the left side of the frame? If there are, what do they look like?
5) What do the grips look like? I'm guessing from your post they have a Walther banner, but are they wood or plastic and what color are they?
6) Does the pistol have any other markings (anything may help)...?

You may have a WWI Nazi “ac” code Walther PP that was captured by a veteran and brought back to the US...or put together at the factory by a G.I. who captured it...or a "PX" gun...or one that was put into service after the war by either West or East Germany...or something else entirely. The best way to know for sure is to post detailed pictures. We'll look them over, do some research...then give you our opinion(s). Based on what you've provided so far I'm definitely intrigued...

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Old 11-27-2009, 03:02 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Milspec View Post
Hi member rtpipkin! Welcome to our forum...

While the Serial Number you gave us is indeed within the range of an "ac" code Walther PP (late 1944-early 1945)...it should have a Nazi Eagle/N stamp. A pre-war "Crown/N" (commercial) stamp doesn't make sense on a late Nazi-era PP. Here are a few other questions that would assist us in identifying your pistol and its approximate value:
1) Does the pistol have an "Eagle/N" stamp on the frame, slide, or barrel?
2) If the pistol has a “Crown N” stamp where is it located (slide or frame, right or left side) and what does it look like...is it horizontal or vertical?
3) Are the Serial Numbers matching or do the frame and slide have different numbers?
4) Are there any markings located behind the trigger guard on the left side of the frame? If there are, what do they look like?
5) What do the grips look like? I'm guessing from your post they have a Walther banner, but are they wood or plastic and what color are they?
6) Does the pistol have any other markings (anything may help)...?

You may have a WWI Nazi “ac” code Walther PP that was captured by a veteran and brought back to the US...or put together at the factory by a G.I. who captured it...or a "PX" gun...or one that was put into service after the war by either West or East Germany...or something else entirely. The best way to know for sure is to post detailed pictures. We'll look them over, do some research...then give you our opinion(s). Based on what you've provided so far I'm definitely intrigued...

Milspec
US Army Ordnance Corps (Retired)
1) There is a eagle "N" stamp on the side and in the ejection port on the barrel. Both are stamped 90 deg. to firearm.
2)There is no crown N stamp. I think, all other markings are explained further on.
3)The serial numbers match on the slide and frame.
4)Yes,There are markings on the frame & behind the trigger guard. It is an eagle above a circle w/ a swastika in it (not an x) with a F next to the circle.
5)The grips are plastic with red walther banner.
6)The only other markings are ac under the serial number. That I can see.

When I figure out haw to put photos on I'll post. There pretty clear as long as I can keep the pix's high.
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Old 11-27-2009, 04:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtpipkin View Post
1) There is a eagle "N" stamp on the side and in the ejection port on the barrel. Both are stamped 90 deg. to firearm.
2)There is no crown N stamp. I think, all other markings are explained further on.
3)The serial numbers match on the slide and frame.
4)Yes,There are markings on the frame & behind the trigger guard. It is an eagle above a circle w/ a swastika in it (not an x) with a F next to the circle.
5)The grips are plastic with red walther banner.
6)The only other markings are ac under the serial number. That I can see.

When I figure out haw to put photos on I'll post. There pretty clear as long as I can keep the pix's high.
The serial number range indicates a late WWII production PP, most probably early-mid 1944, possibly late 1943. The markings indicate a police procurement pistol, not Army, commercial, or SS pistol.
"The grips are plastic with red walther banner". - Can you elaborate on this?
Are the grips a reddish brown, oxblood, or dark brown, or are the grips black with some red paint in the banner/logo part of the grips?
Reddish brown PP grips were given to SA shooting team members to be used on their PPs. They were supposed to be removed from the pistol when a team member obtained another pistol(for whatever reason). The grips could wind up on just about any PP pistol of choice and the only provenence would be if a pistol was enscribed/engraved as a shooting contest prize (Ehrenprise) and had the grips attached. Grips of that type are considered rare and often sell for $200 + at auction when they can be found. (Grip information is courtesy of renknowned PP & PPK expert Dieter Marschall).
HTH
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Old 11-27-2009, 04:35 PM   #8
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Too bad I can't correct for the couple of spelling errors in my reply to rtpipkin.
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Old 11-27-2009, 05:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtpipkin View Post
1) There is a eagle "N" stamp on the side and in the ejection port on the barrel. Both are stamped 90 deg. to firearm.
2)There is no crown N stamp. I think, all other markings are explained further on.
3)The serial numbers match on the slide and frame.
4)Yes,There are markings on the frame & behind the trigger guard. It is an eagle above a circle w/ a swastika in it (not an x) with a F next to the circle.
5)The grips are plastic with red walther banner.
6)The only other markings are ac under the serial number. That I can see.

When I figure out haw to put photos on I'll post. There pretty clear as long as I can keep the pix's high.
OK...it's a late war "ac" code Walther PP Eagle/F Police Pistol (manufactured by Walther in early 1945). It's one of about 6000 pistols produced in the Serial# range 370000P - 380000P. It's a highly collectable little pistol. They're found with black or occasionally reddish plastic (bakelite) grips. Some have beech wood grips with the Walther banner pressed in (I've always liked the red grips myself)...

As a late war Walther PP it won't have the milled cuts behind the trigger guard or a loaded chamber indicator pin. The left side of the slide should be blank. Some have the "ac" code stamped below the serial number on the right side of the slide and on some the "ac" follows the serial number (on some it's not there at all). The frame serial number runs along the grip behind the trigger guard (readable from the grip side). Sounds like yours is correct in every respect. The correct WWII magazine will be marked with the Walther banner and "PP 7.65 m/m" and may also have the serial number and a "1" or a "2" stamped on it (common on police issued pistols).

Value will depend on condition plus whether you've got a holster and spare magazine. Definitely would love to see photos of this one...

Milspec
US Army Ordnance Corps (Retired)
Reference: Axis Pistols Volume II, by Jan C. Still
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:08 PM   #10
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Can anyone help me determine the value of my Walther PP .22lr with Eagle N stamps?

Hi, I just joined this forum because I'm trying to determine the value and history of an inheirited Walther PP .22lr. It was made in Ulm, imported by Interarms. serial number 36705. It has matching Eagle N stamps on the right side. It has the original owners manual and a spare mag. It's in great condition. Thanks to anyone who can help!!
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