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Old 04-11-2009, 01:16 AM   #1
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PP & TPH date on manufacture?

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I have two questions regarding Walthers: I have a PP (Interarms Imported) number 702XX and a TPH (non Interarms) 292XXX can anyone tell me a year of manufacture please? I would be very greatfull.

I have to say these are two (out of a great many) of the finest handguns I have owned. I love the TPH!

Thanks,
Brian
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Old 04-11-2009, 11:55 AM   #2
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Hi, Waltherlover, and welcome to the forum.

With regard to your PP, more information would be helpful for you to make a full determination of when the gun was made, and by whom. The caliber also is necessary to help pinpoint the range of production; the notations on both sides of the slide would help as well. Here's what I can tell you at the moment: The Manuhrin-made pistols in .32 caliber had serial numbers from 10001 to 99600 and were made from October of 1952 to January of 1961. The .380 pistols, also from Manuhrin, had serial numbers of 12003 to 78148A and were made form May of 1954 to November of 1985. According to the charts, Walther made no PP pistols in the serial range you have provided.

Walther began production of the pistol in 1929, by most accounts, beginning with the serial number 750001.

The TPH is a great little pistol; we get too little discussion about them on the board. Production was at the Walther plant in Ulm and ran from 1968 to until May of 2000. The serial range began at 250001. From one verified report, I can tell you that serial number 275180 in .25 caliber was made in 1973. Beyond that, the folks at Walther can likely pinpoint the born-on date of your gun with some precision. You can send them an email here:

info@carl-walther.de

They are generally pretty good about getting back to you with specifics in a few days time. You also should inquire about your PP at the same time. Their records from 1945 and before were destroyed and/or captured and lost during the war, but their post-war records are intact.

All Walther lovers, by the way, would benefit from Dieter Marschall's fine book "Walther Pistols Models 1 Through P99," available from Ucross Books in Los Alamos, New Mexico.

Hope that helps a bit.
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Old 04-11-2009, 06:28 PM   #3
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Thanks for the quick reply.
"The caliber also is necessary to help pinpoint the range of production; the notations on both sides of the slide would help as well"

On the left side of the slide: Carl Walther Waffenfabrik Ulm/Do.
Walther (in banner) Modell PP Cal. 9mm kurz
Made in W.Germany

On right side: 70277 the N over crown(?) and Interarms Alexandria Virgina

On the right side of the frame: N over crown(?) IB & antler mark with dot(?)

grips are marked inside 734.

Does this help? Thanks again,

Brian
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:47 AM   #4
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Waltherlover: You may have to resolve the issue via the folks at the factory in Ulm by sending them an email. The serial number you provide is lower by at least one number than any of those registered in the available charts, which is interesting.

Is it possible that you aren't seeing the entire number? Was the gun perhaps buffed and refinished at some point? Is there a number on the frame that matches the number on the slide? Maybe you can post a couple of good photos; that might help as well. But with the information that you have, and what I have in the charts from the Marschall book, I can match it. Sorry.

Don't hesitate to send off an email to Walther. And let us know what you hear.
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Old 04-12-2009, 01:11 AM   #5
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Hi, Thanks I have e-mailed Walther. The frame number is the same with an "A" following. The gun is near mint and the numbers are clear. Odd? I'll let you know what I find out.
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Old 04-12-2009, 06:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltherlover View Post

On the right side of the frame: N over crown(?) IB & antler mark with dot(?)

Brian
Hi,

The letters IB actually indicate that it was made in 1981 and the antler shows that it has been prove shot in Ulm. Most often than not, the date of the prove shot mark is identical with the date of manufacture since the guns were usually tested right away when leaving the factory. I'm a bit confused about the N over crown. The crown points out that it's a WWII gun, but the WWII Walther guns were made in Zella-Mehlis and never in Ulm.

However, please let us know the respond from Walther.
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Old 04-12-2009, 10:37 AM   #7
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All of which made me wonder about a slide and/or frame swap, inspiron. (That's also why some photos might help clear things up a bit.) It'll be interesting to see if Walther can pinpoint the gun based on the serial number.

Do keep us posted, Waltherlover. The case becomes curious.
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Old 04-12-2009, 09:18 PM   #8
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Sorry, thats a not an N above a crown, its an N below an eagle!
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:15 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Waltherlover View Post
Sorry, thats a not an N above a crown, its an N below an eagle!
OK waltherlover, then it's clear now. Your Walther PP was made in 1981. The raw parts were produced in Manurhin (France), but assembled, roller stamped and finished in Ulm (Germany). The serial no. range for these guns (PP, Manurhin parts, 9mm kurz, Ulm stamped) is from ~ 12000 - 78200 and the were produced from 05/1954 - 11/1985.
Later, in 1985 and beginning with serial no. 700001, Walther started to move the entire production of all its PP and PPK from Manurhin to Ulm.
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:56 PM   #10
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Thanks, I'll let you know what Walther says on the TPH as well
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